Gospel Motivations for Forgiveness - Part 2
Continuing our miniseries on forgiveness, can we truly understand the depth of our sin and the cost of Christ’s forgiveness?
This week, we’re joined by our newest co-host, Leah Bechtold, alongside Janet Aucoin as they dive deeper into grieving over our sin in light of Christ’s perfect sacrifice. They explore how Christ bore our sin individually and why His perfect forgiveness should inspire us to grieve over the impact our sin had on Him—rather than focusing on the harm the sin of others has caused us.
Resources:
Podcasts
Forgiveness - Joyful Journey Podcast
Forgiveness Sermon Series - Milton Vincent
Books
The Gospel Primer - Milton Vincent
Website
Masters of Arts in Biblical Counseling Faith Bible Seminary
Transcript:
Jocelyn: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Janet: I just want to make it as totally simple as possible for ladies to see that the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.
Janet: Welcome back. As I mentioned in the last episode, we have the privilege of a few different co-hosts this year, and I'm excited for you to meet my friend Leah. So Leah's here with us today. Can you tell us just a little bit about you today, Leah?
Leah: Yes. So I'm married to Jeremiah and we have lived in the Lafayette area for about 10 years.
Janet: Has it been 10? Wow, that's crazy. Okay.
Leah: Yes. A decade basically. So, time has gone by so fast. We've attended Faith West the whole time. We both serve in the international ministry. We do one-on-one English conversation partners in Sunday mornings, as well as helping with temporary housing program for new Chinese students every fall. And that's always been a blessing to us. I get to work right now with international students at Purdue. And
Janet: for your job?
Leah: Yes, for my job. And then I get to be a volunteer counselor on our Monday ministries and have been doing that, biblical counseling for about, I guess five years now.
Janet: Wow.
Leah: Yeah, so that's all a huge blessing and the biggest news in our life is that we have been foster parents for the past year and a couple months now. we've been a long-term foster parent for one girl who is seven, and then with another girl who joined us. She's six and she's been with us about six months, so.
Janet: Wow.
Leah: Yeah, it's been a very sweet season of life.
Janet: Emotional journeys through all of that. But thankful that you're there for them as well.
Leah: Yes. Yeah, it's been a blessing.
Janet: Excellent. So that's Leah. She's gonna be joining us today, and if you remember in our last episode, we began talking about what motivates us to forgive. As a reminder, and I mentioned this last time. We do have a previous episode on what forgiveness actually is, and I highly recommend that we will have that linked in the show notes. But to summarize the last episode: knowing how hard and painful forgiveness is, what in the world would motivate me to wanna do that? So last episode, when we were with Noelle, we talked about a few things. We're gonna talk about some more, but quickly, one of the things that motivates us is realizing that Christ not only bore my sin, which he did. He bore to the full extent my grief and my sorrow. Which is amazing to think about the fact that I'm not alone. He understands. He understands my pain. Even the pain of being sinned against, not just because he was also sinned against, which is true, but he also literally bore mine. My pain, my sorrow. So he can look at me and go, I know.
Leah: Yeah. We're not alone.
Janet: That's amazing. So we talked about that more last time. Also, the fact that we have to realize that God sometimes purposes, those he loves dearly will be painfully sinned against. I think it's easy for us when we're sinned against to see that as a lack of love from God. And yet we know he loved his son and he orchestrated that his son would be sinned against most horrifically. We talked a lot more about that last time. And also that in the midst of this God, the father can be completely trusted when I'm on the receiving end of any wrongdoing. And that was really powerful for me to think about Jesus trusting the Father as his suffering got worse and worse, and we've all been there where our suffering gets worse and worse, and so our trust begins to fade.
Leah: And those verses from one Peter are a huge encouragement to me and to anyone I counsel in suffering.
Janet: Which are?
Leah: To entrust ourselves to the father, the First Peter 2: 23.
Janet: Yes. And to think Jesus did and so we can. And Jesus trusted all the way to the point of his father turning away from him. And crying out, my God, my God, I will trust you even when you do turn away from me. How God was trustworthy and raised him from the dead and showed his trustworthiness so that Jesus can now look at you and I and go, you can trust my father even with this. Those things were really helpful to me, and you'll get a lot more of those in the last episode. But after being humbly amazed at Jesus's trust in his father. And his unbelievable love for us that motivated him to walk that path. I do then need to remember something else. This was really when Milton Vincent talked about this in his series. It was so good for me. I have committed greater sins against God than any sin committed against me. You know, I think many times in Christian circles we say that we will say, my sin put Christ on the cross. But you know, the way we even say it, it's like, it's not that bad. You know, so, but when I think about it. There was only one innocent person ever and he was killed. And the scriptures say, my sin put him on the cross. Not just the sin of all mankind, though. Yes, but mine. Yes, he bore my sorrow and my sin. Just as it's my sorrow and he completely understands my pain. He bore my sin. I killed God. I killed Jesus. Do I really believe that? Or do I believe he had to die for the sins of the world? And I had a couple up there.
Leah: Right. Do I believe I'm the one who's nailing his hands, right? Piercing his side?
Janet: Yes. Do I understand that? And when I take just a little bit to think about the seriousness of that, and then I look at his response to that reality, father, forgive Janet. What? Completely undeserved. And once again, his hesed, undeserved love is what shines his love, that delights to give to those who don't deserve it. His desire, this phrase, when I studied Hesed, that one person had said, his desire to commit himself to those who don't even want to be committed to him. Do I realize that about myself? Because even now I still choose sin. Wow.
Leah: Again and again.
Janet: Yes, It's one thing that I chose sin in the ignorance of knowing the gospel. That's wrong. It's wicked. But how about I know what you did for me and I just wanna do what I wanna do. I'm gonna choose to dishonor you right now. What? And I still care more about my own way than I do yours. Wow. When I see that, what in the world could anybody do to me worse than I have done to God? I think that's so important because it's easy to say, what you did to me is way worse than what I've ever done to you. It's way worse than I've ever done to anybody, but it's not. That may or may not be true, because I have my own perspective, but it's not worse than what I've done to God. It really helps me put things in perspective. When I'm sinned against, this is my moment to shine. This is my platform to be so grateful for God's forgiveness of my heinous sin, that then I get to say, I get to have that heart towards somebody else now too. How do you think knowing your own culpability before God and then how he responded to you, how would that motivate you, Leah?
Leah: Well, for me, it convicts me of my own fault often to think that it's my job to judge others and ensure they receive justice.
Janet: Yes.
Leah: In remembering one my sins against God makes me think on Psalm 51, as David cries out for God to have mercy on him according to his great love and compassion because he knows that his sins are first and foremost against God and that God is right in his judgments against himself.
Janet: Yes.
Leah: Not his wrongdoers.
Janet: And he doesn't say, God give me justice.
Leah: Right. Yes.
Janet: Which is what you're saying our temptation is with everybody else. I wanna make sure they get justice. But when it's our sin, when it was David's sin, he didn't say, God, give me what I justly deserve.
Leah: No, it's have compassion on me. And so when I admit that in my heart and reflect on God's undeserved love as a response to my sins, it fills me with gratitude and joy. And that makes me want to share that gratitude and joy. To have others get to experience that as well. And so experiencing forgiveness changes my heart and that truth then makes me want to be a part of others experiencing that change too. But I have to choose to forgive them.
Janet: And even when they don't deserve it.
Leah: Exactly.
Janet: And you know, 'cause none of this is saying, oh, then I realize it wasn't that big a deal. No, it may have been a really big deal. But so was mine. So was David's. God is merciful. Milton Vincent, I've talked about his sermon series, was really helpful to me in this, but he also wrote a book on the gospel, the Gospel Primer. If you've listened to the podcast any length of time, you've heard us mention it. I love that little book. It's primarily an opportunity to understand the gospel and revel in its truth. But it also challenges me with how should I live then consistent with the gospel. This statement, it's actually a statement, that he writes in the section that's on my salvation, what God gives to me. it has really encouraged me and challenged me. Listen to this statement. "God does see my sins and he is grieved by my sins. His grief comes partly from the fact that in my moments of sin, I'm not receiving the fullness of his love for me." When I read that, because sometimes I think, when can wrongly say because of the gospel, God's like Santa Claus. He doesn't even think about my sin. But it's not true. He sees it. He sees it and he's grieved. And he's not grieved 'cause she should know better. And I can't believe this, he's grieved, at least in part he says that when I am living out of my way and not God's, I am not experiencing the fullness of his love for me. It hasn't changed his love. But I'm not abiding in it because I'm choosing not to. Well, first that's amazing. After all, he is done for me, when I sin against him, to think that his heart is one of grief for that. So I am amazed by that. It draws me to him and it's helped me that when I'm sinning to not try to make up for it, just run to him. And know that that's, so that's great. And then I was reading it and it hit me is that my heart, when people sin against me. Like, am I grieved at their sin or am I angry? 'cause I can't believe they do that to me. Like, what did I do to you? I don't deserve that. That's totally unfair. My heart very quickly goes to anger.
Leah: Mine too.
Janet: When I am sinned against. And I thought, wow, when I'm meditating first on my own sinfulness and God's gracious response, it's exactly what you said, Leah. It's gonna motivate me to wanna give that. And when I'm actually thinking that way, I can actually be grieved because I'm most concerned that if they're truly sinning against me. They're not close to God in that moment, doesn't mean they don't know God. Just as when I sin, I don't lose my salvation. But I'm not abiding close to Jesus right then. They're not either. I can actually grow to be grieved, which means in that moment I am growing to not think about me but to think about them. Wow.
Leah: And then the Psalm 51 comes back. Am I grieved that they're first and foremost sinning against God? And that that part of the relationship, like you said, they're not experiencing abiding fully in his love in that moment? 'Cause most of the time I'm just angry that it's affected me.
Janet: Yes. So when I'm sinning, his arms are open. He's inviting me back to him. He is grieved that my sin keeps me from abiding in his love. When someone sins against me, am I grieved that they're not abiding in God's love. Am I inviting them back to that, not ignoring the sin. God doesn't ignore mine. And I don't, God doesn't call me to roll over, play dead and act like sin didn't happen. But that my heart would be, oh, I don't want you to live in that. A heart of compassion.
Leah: And I love thinking about it that way of having a compassionate heart as well as forgiving, because is my lack of compassion, my unwillingness to forgive them. Preventing someone else from abiding more fully in God's love. So I love connecting that together. The idea of compassion, not ignoring the sin, but being compassionate. Like our God is compassionate towards us.
Janet: Which I mean, I love that. 'cause what you're saying is when I am compassionate, I'm actually making it easier for them to repent. And that's what we want for them. So my compassion can be used by God in that way. There was that I've committed greater sins against God, which is true, and we've already been talking about the next one as well, because you really have to talk about them together. The next one is that Christ has purchased my forgiveness and justification, so I've already really been talking about that. Knowing that I sinned so grievously against God would lead to despair if that were the end of the story. I mean, think about the self pity and the despair that would come if all I meditate on is you put God on the cross. You killed God. You are disgusting. All that's true, but that's not the end of the story. Knowing those great sins actually gives me more to rejoice in because Christ says, I know even more than you do, Janet. And I love you. That's amazing.
Leah: It is.
Janet: And when I don't actually think about the seriousness of my sin, it doesn't amaze me as much that he loves me. It's almost like, well, who wouldn't?
Leah: Exactly. I'm super lovable. Look how great I am.
Janet: But when I see what I've done, you realize there is no earthly reason he should love me. He doesn't just say, I love you. He then goes on to live that out by purchasing my salvation. Purchasing my forgiveness, willingly, affectionately, with affection. What a savior. So Vincent talks about you have to put those together. Only thinking about my sin would lead me to despair. But only thinking about the second one, there's almost an arrogance to that. It makes it about me. Jesus loves me. Even when people say the phrase, if you were the only person on earth, he would've died for you. That's how worthy you are to recognize if you were the only one on earth, he would have to die because that's how sinful you are. And he loves you. It is not building me up. But it is filling me with how amazing and how freeing and humbling, so if I keep them together, I don't come out arrogantly going, God didn't make junk look at me. But I also don't come out saying, woe is me and having an Eeyore day which is what we call those in our home. The Eeyore days where it's all about nobody loves me. And if I had a birthday party, nobody would come. It's neither. It's, I see the sin in me, I don't deny it, and I'm amazed that the God who sees it even better, loves me. And all of that turns my gaze upward. And it continues to motivate me. I want to forgive others the way I've been forgiven.
Leah: It might start with, after listening to these truths, I want to want to forgive others. You know? I want to have that desire. I don't have it right now.
Janet: Which is why I'm gonna meditate on these things. And ask God to orient my heart to want. That's a good point, Leah, because it's, that's why we have to do this. Because we don't naturally even want to.
Leah: Exactly.
Janet: Yeah. So the next one. Jesus purchased me at the cross. I am owned by him. That's not a new truth none of these things really are. But when I think about that, he purchased me, which is pretty amazing that he wanted to purchase me. I mean, you think about it, when I go to the store, I purchase things I want. He wants me. Knowing all that we've just said, and it means I don't own myself anymore. I am under new management. I am owned by him, and I have to realize sometimes we think that means I have to give up all of my rights. It's actually a wonderful place to be. I don't know about you, but I have realized as I've gotten older, I don't love me very well. When I do, for me, whatever I want to do, for me, I destroy me.
Leah: Yep. All of this is reflecting in how I'm trying to talk to our foster daughters about God's love and why obeying, obeying parents, obeying God is actually so much better. It seems like it's not, but it is. And trying to explain to them the fruit or the blessing, right. That comes from going God's way.
Janet: Yes. It's not giving up what would be awesome to deal with what I have to do. It's better. Than what he loves me so much better than I love me. He loves your precious girls. Far better than they love themselves. But my pride, my foolish pride resists that. So I have to fight it with truth. And for me, literally at one point made a list if I could love me any way I want, what I would do for me. It was kind of pathetic, but I did it. And then you realize I would be a jerk. I mean, everybody would hate me because I would make my life really easy. I would make it to where everything was about me and who likes those people. So, wow. But knowing that I'm owned by God has some implications that I had not thought about till I heard this sermon series. I don't live for my own agenda anymore, I live for his, and those are vastly different. It means it's very possible that what I'm upset about, even when I'm saying I can't believe she did that to me or he did that to me, it might not even be sin in the other person. And sometimes it really is. I don't wanna deny that, but sometimes it just means they've crossed my agenda. I had goals for today that might not have been bad goals. They weren't wicked goals. But now because of that person, my agenda has been crossed. And when I'm living for myself, I don't like that. Like when my kids growing up needed to be parented. Inconvenient times. Well, it's not even necessarily sin on their part, but it makes me mad because it gets in the way of what I was trying to do. Because I didn't have in my day, from nine to nine 30, I'll parent it. It was nine to nine 30, I'm gonna accomplish whatever this is. And then they needed parenting. my kids are adults now, but I remember my son was one who enjoyed the journey is the only phrase I know for my son. And when we're trying to get somewhere, my daughter and I, if we know it's coming, shoes are on. We're by the door. Because I will say this, my daughter and I are very similar in that we're pretty efficient. Like what do we gotta do? Let's be prepared. Oh, not my son. He's never in a hurry to this day I would say that's probably the case. So put your shoes on, get your coat on. Let's walk toward the car and let's do it efficiently. Get your coat on while you walk. 'cause why not? Well then my son Josh is taking his time. Josh is looking at the birds on the way. I still remember this. He would go, mom, look at all those birds over there. And I'm thinking, I didn't even see that there were birds. We just have somewhere that we need to be and we just need to go. He's enjoying the things around him, which is good for me, but it's not efficient and it's not sin. It's not wrong, and I actually benefit from him when I humble myself to realize that, but it would make me mad. And I really didn't need to say, I need to be willing to forgive him. He wasn't even sinning. What I needed to do is repent of my selfish agenda and going, I'm living for the kingdom of Janet right now, and realize I was bought. I live with God's values. God's values are different. God's priorities are that I love God and I love others. Mine are very different, so at least I need to consider when I'm upset with someone, is it something I even need to forgive or do I need to just repent of living selfishly and being mad at anybody who hinders my agenda? I don't know. Can you relate to that at all, Leah?
Leah: I am sitting here laughing as you talk about your son because this is so convicting for me in this, for me, new season of parenting. It's only been not even a year and a half, and he has been teaching me so much about my selfish agenda of parenting because if they don't do what I want when I ask it you know, it makes my heart angry towards them. And I'm so thankful that God is revealing that in me and that he is allowing me to parent so I can work through those heart issues more. But this is helping me think through that sometimes again, the issue isn't really, oh, I should be more forgiving towards them. I shouldn't be forgiving towards them for something that isn't sin. But instead I need to focus on reorienting my heart's desires in that moment to one, be living for God and his glory, and two, to be loving others more than my own agenda. And it's powerful to realize that most of the time the problem is just actually me. They have done nothing wrong. It is just me having expectations. You know, even when we get angry in traffic, right? Oh, I shouldn't have a forgiving heart towards people who cut me off. You know? It's like, well, did they even know? Was that even sin? So anyway, I just laughing as you talk and I'm encouraged that I'm not the only one who has walked this path of fighting my agenda. And again, thinking what really needs forgiveness and what just needs me to reorient my heart.
Janet: Yes. And so I have to stop and at least think about that. But another thing that I had not thought about, another truly freeing implication to know that my rights have been bought by somebody else is that here's what that means. I don't have to fight for my rights anymore. You know, you think about it as an unbeliever what I know is that nobody's really concerned about my rights except me. So if I'm gonna get the rights that I believe are right, I gotta fight for it. And we certainly see that. But now I actually used to think of it like, well, I don't have rights anymore because I've been bought and it's not true. It's not that I don't have rights anymore. I'm not a doormat. It's not, I've been bought with a price, therefore, whatever. It's that my rights were bought by Jesus, and that means when somebody sins against me, they don't deal with me. They deal with him. That was really powerful for me to think about. Wow, I get to say Jesus, look, and he never makes a mistake. He's gonna deal with it rightly which certainly involves everything about his character. He's going to be gentle. He's going to be kind, but he's righteous. And he sees. And now I don't have to fight for my rights, not because I'm a doormat and I don't have any, but because. They're his. Jesus, I know you'll handle all of that in what way is best. And I also know that I don't know what that is. Now I'm free. I just get to love the other person while I trust Jesus with what my rights are. I don't know about you that was a new thought for me.
Leah: Yeah. No, I mean it's, interesting to think about how, yeah. It's really not my fight at all. Again, not to be walked on as the opposite, but the one who's truly just is the one who's going to protect the rights he has given me. That he's going to enable me to do what I need to do in a situation, no matter the other person's response.
Janet: Yes. And I think about that even with a little kid. If somebody is a bully to a little kid, what do they do? They run to their mom. They run to their dad, and we don't say to them, well go figure it out. We take care of it. If we need to go talk to the other parent, whatever we need to do. They know to run to the one who is going to take care of them. And then they're free to just go love the other kid and know that whatever consequences need to happen, they don't have to figure that out. Now sometimes they try, I get that. But that's what we're telling them is, you don't need to do that. That's my job. You come to me, that's my job. And I think, we do that. We don't do it perfectly, but we get the concept. Well, I have a heavenly father who says, I died for your rights. I have them now, and I never make a mistake. You don't have to do that anymore. I've got it. And that's like, weight off, and I don't need to be afraid that what's right isn't gonna happen. It's gonna happen. It probably won't be the way I think, when I think. That's good. Because I'm, at a minimum limited. I'm also sinful. But even if my thinking is right in the moment, and my motives are right in the moment, I'm limited. I don't even know all the things to know what's best.
Leah: Right. But he sees all. Yes. He knows all. And I can trust him with that.
Janet: Yes. So the other thing, that Milton Vincent went on to say, and I was so grateful that he did was he acknowledged forgiveness is suffering, death, and crucifixion. And I was so glad that he stated that because forgiveness is really painful and we don't have to pretend. I don't need to say if I'm godly, it will not be painful to forgive someone who has horribly hurt me. I don't have to act like that. He quotes Tim Keller saying this, and I like this quote. "Forgiveness is agony when you want to make them pay. You not only suffer the original pain of what was done, but you suffer in foregoing, inflicting the same pain on them." I can relate to that. When I have been truly sinned against that hurts. And then to not be able to get vengeance is like double hurt. Because they're not hurting and I am. My flesh is screaming that's not fair. Keller goes on to say this, "Everyone who forgives goes through a death and experiences, nails, blood, sweat, and tears. Forgiveness is costly suffering. Forgiveness always initially feels worse than bitterness."
Leah: I like that a lot.
Janet: Yes, cause I do think there's a temptation for us to say, well you need to forgive 'cause that'll help you feel better. And you know what, not initially. So that's an interesting thought that initially it feels worse than bitterness.
Leah: Right. And it's very powerful to reflect on, especially when you hear people talk about bitterness being like the poison. And forgiveness being the cure. Because then it makes it seem like forgiveness will automatically make you feel better.
Janet: Right.
Leah: But it may not be automatic.
Janet: No, it probably won't be. I mean, I get that because bitterness is easy. Like if someone cruelly sins against me. It's very natural to be bitter about it because it really wasn't fair. It really wasn't just I am being asked to endure it without exacting retribution. It's a double pain that can make me prone to bitterness. And I think that's good for us to remember so that we won't be so tempted to tell people, forgive to free yourself. Forgive for your own sake, though. There's there, we're gonna get to that. There is some truth to that ultimately. There is much truth to that ultimately. I believe in forgiveness. It's all over. I mean, I see it, it's the only reason I'm going to heaven. But the cost to Jesus was great. And knowing it was coming, he sweat blood. It hurt so I don't forgive so that I'll feel better because quite frankly, that's still about me. So then I'm not doing what Jesus did. Jesus did not forgive us, so he'd feel better. He forgave us because we needed it, and he bore the pain of it. So,
Leah: and he's the only one who could pay for it.
Janet: Yes. And so he did.
Leah: And he didn't Lord that over us. He did it willingly and freely because of his love for us.
Janet: So initially, I probably won't feel better. I forgive for all the reasons we've been talking about, like the whole last two episodes, and then I know I have a compassionate savior who understands the pain. And when I look at the gospel, I go, oh my word. That's exactly what God did for me. Be amazed that this is what Jesus did. He absorbed it all. Canceling a debt that somebody owes you doesn't make it disappear. It means you absorb it. If you owe me a thousand dollars and I forgive it. I don't have a thousand dollars. I have absorbed that. And when I willingly do that, I'm participating in the sufferings of Christ and I get just a slight taste and a shadow of what he did for me. You know, when I realize how hard it is for me to forgive, have a forgiving spirit, especially towards someone who's not repentant yet. To have a forgiving spirit when it's truly sin against me and I go, oh, that's so hard. There's a shadow of what Christ did while they mocked him.
Leah: It's a beautiful reflection of what it could mean and look like for us to pick up our cross and follow him.
Janet: Yes.
Leah: To be made more into his image in that way.
Janet: And he's worth that. But he does go on to say, Vincent's last point, which is true death is the precursor to life. So it is a death that is a kind of death to forgive. I'm dying to my dreams, I'm dying to vengeance, all of those things. But the scriptures actually say that Jesus, as he literally died, focused on the joy set before him and was able to despise or minimize or think little of the shame of the cross, I can't even imagine that had to be some incredible joy. That allowed him to minimize what he was going through, not just the physical pain of the cross though, yes. But he was bearing my pain, my sin, your pain, your sin. I don't even, I can't imagine that.
Leah: Right. Because, I mean, I think of the pain. I think I feel because I believe I'm innocent. But to know you are truly innocent and to go through that. Yeah, we can't even imagine that kind of suffering.
Janet: That kind of, and so what kind of joy did he have to focus on? He says it's on the other side of crucifixion but in order to experience that joy, there has to be a crucifixion. He endured the cross. Why? Because he knew a lot of things. One of them, the result of going through with the crucifixion was our eternal joy with him. I thought it was so interesting that Vincent says this, we want to do everything we can short of actual dying. I wanna give a little, I wanna show that I've tried harder than them, or I'll say things like this, you know what, I'll ask forgiveness if they will. I'll deal with mine, but I don't wanna just deal with my 5% if you don't deal with your 95. I can relate to that. I want to be more forgiving than them. Because then I can feel better about me, but I don't wanna die. I don't wanna completely give my rights to the Lord and completely trust God and completely forgive. But I need to die. And God pours out freedom and grace and peace. On the other side, he talks about resurrection life. And he raised Christ from the dead, but he had to die first. And then he raised him. So we want resurrection life. This is the path. It's not gonna be different than the path was for Christ. But to know that there is the hope of that on the other side. When my husband taught through these things recently, he added a couple of other gospel thoughts that I wanna share as well. One was God has meditated on, planned for and decided in advance to forgive those who would repent likewise, I must also. Now God knows who will repent. I don't, I get that. Jesus was kind and loving to Judas, knowing he would not repent. But I think, here's Brent, I believe the point prior to repentance, God worked intentionally toward planning for their repentance, which means prior to someone's repentance that sinned against me. I need to actively seek their good in the same way. Whether it's Judas, who I seek his good and he doesn't repent. Or whether that's Peter, seeking his good and Peter repented. So I am actively looking for ways to grace or bless, not pretend they didn't sin against me. Because God didn't do that. But I don't know, as I say that, Leah, what are some ways you think we can do that?
Leah: Yeah, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is to be praying for them instead of holding that in my heart when I'm angry or sad about the situation. But honestly, for me, a big way is adjusting how I talk about that person, my perpetrator, to others. Can I choose to bless them and be gracious towards them in my speech? You know, when others ask me about the situation or talk to me about that person. And also in our culture, you know, we're taught to cancel people.
Janet: Oh, cancel everybody. Yep.
Leah: Or ghost people, just ignore them if they've hurt us. So to actively bless a perpetrator against me could mean me refusing to cut them out. But rather continue engaging. And that's hard
Janet: And they don't deserve it.
Leah: Right.
Janet: Nor do I deserve the fact that God engages with me.
Leah: Exactly.
Janet: Yeah. And when you said pray, I thought I had to actually even think about how I pray, because when I'm battling bitterness and wanting my heart to move more toward all the things we've said, I need to meditate on all that. And I know I need to pray for them. And my temptation was to pray God make them repent. And you know what? It's not wrong that I want them to repent. But my heart was frequently 'cause then it'll be easier to forgive them if they actually admit what they did was wrong which is still about me. So I had to learn, how do I pray? What do I pray for? And so there are, here is how I pray for people like that. I'm battling with God. I am begging you to put them in a position where they would live in humble, joyful, integrity before you. That's what I want for them. God knows how to do that. And repentance would be part of that.
Leah: And that's how I pray for people I love.
Janet: Yes. So I'm not praying would you allow their sin to not bother them and they would still have a great life. I do want their repentance, but when my heart is wrestling with wanting their repentance, at least in part because it would justify that's right what you didn't was wrong. Then the way that I try to protect myself and not provoke my own sin and think about good toward them, that has been a phrase I, can confidently pray. I am asking you, God, that they could live in humble, joyful, integrity before you, however gets them there, and I know that will be best for their soul. Would you allow them to see you in a way that would draw them to live that way? And I don't need to say, and that will mean that they would need to repent. They would need. I don't have to do that.
Leah: He knows that.
Janet: He does. And it's not wrong. Like if I'm not mad at you, but I see that you need to repent 'cause I'm watching you turn to sin. I will pray for your repentance. And that's not a wrong thing, it's a good thing. But when it's mixed in my heart with other things, I have found praying for that sometimes feeds my own bitterness. Because it's like, yes, and you know what? And until they do like I'm, it's like, no, no, no, no. How do I pray a blessing on them? The biggest blessing they could have is to live in humble, joyful, integrity before God. I'm gonna pray that for them and then I'm gonna realize, and God, I need that. And now I'm praying that for me too. Because that's part of the wrestling in my soul is I'm not living that way. So anyway, even learning, how do I pray for them when my heart is wrestling?
Leah: It's helpful. It's helpful to reorient it again to want what God wants. Not just what I want when I'm praying.
Janet: And are there other ways we can bless? Can I send them a card? And just let them know. Can I initiate acts of true goodness. Now each situation is unique. There may not be things that are appropriate to do. But it's always appropriate to pray for their wellbeing. So I can do that. And then if there are other ways, at a minimum, ask the Lord, are there other ways that I could really bless this person, not feed sin? Because that's, I think, our fear, if I bless them, then they'll think The Lord knows all that I'm gonna trust the Lord because he has all my rights. But what would actually be a blessing? And ask God for creative ways to do that. So that's one. The other thing that Brent brought out was the cross is God's invitation to me to repent and receive forgiveness. Jesus did it all and then offers to me trust what I did for you. So I should go appropriately to those who've sinned against me to invite them to repent as well, seeking to impart grace. And that was helpful to think about you know, we're at the end of two episodes before we even begin to address, do I go to the other person. Because I think my temptation is, what are the steps? You've sinned against me. I need to go to you. Well, yes, but if I haven't worked on my heart first with all of these truths, here's what's more than likely, at least for me. It may be true that you've sinned against me. It may be accurate and it may be true that it would be right to talk to you about it, but I'm gonna be going with a log in my eye of self-righteousness and a skewed view. So it's not that it's wrong to go. It's in my pride, well, you shouldn't have done that. And I'm gonna go to you because the Bible says that I should go to you. Even that mentality of the way I just said that. There's such self-righteousness and anger. So I might use biblical words and say Biblical things with a motive of, and if you ask my forgiveness, I'm so incredibly spiritual, I'll forgive you. Oh my word. What in the world? So, I had as a result of this, I thought, wow, I do tend to go there quickly. And how about I can't go there with right motives until I get the log outta my eye, which means I gotta deal with my bitterness. I gotta deal with my resentment. Not that it, I won't still have battles going on. I don't wait for perfection. But I do humble myself before God. And. Hang out at the cross and talk about these things and then say, okay, you know, working through those motivations to forgive that we just talked about, it's not in lieu of going to my brother or sister, but I do think it's a precursor to being able to go with the desire to impart grace. Am I going for justice or grace?
Leah: And it's amazing that God even wants to involve us in imparting grace to others. So like the fact that he wants us to be a part of that by forgiving others, motivates me to want to self-evaluate more. Before I go to the other person. Do I first seek to reflect Christ in my heart towards this person before seeking them out?
Janet: Yes. And so for me, what it means is gonna take some time. Because here's the other, principle that I think about solve today's problems today. Don't let, and that's true. That is a biblical principle. But I can't solve problems with a log in my eye. I'm not actually going to solve the problem. I'm going for vengeance. But I'm just putting a biblical phrase on it by saying I'm confronting them about their sin. It's like, okay, I can't go in humility with the desire to impart grace until I've done some work. I've talked with wives before, dealing with some sin in their husband's lives, and I've had more than one wife look at me and say, so you're telling me that I can't talk to him about his sin unless I think that mine's bigger? And I don't mean theirs toward him in that moment. I mean, theirs toward God and I've had to say, yeah. And that should at least motivate you to deal with your sin before God and see it. Because you're right until you're willing to do that, you really can't go to your husband because you're gonna be going wrongly.
Leah: Yeah. Not with grace.
Janet: And your husband needs you to go, like you do need to talk to him. His soul needs you to go to him, but you cannot go with grace until you've dealt with these things. And I, that's so hard. Anything else is just about me. I want them to make it right with me, and I call it righteous anger. When God calls me to be grieved for the sake of their soul. And I can even in that moment go, oh, I am grieved for their soul because what they're doing it's wrong, but you hear the attitude. So it's like, okay, I need to at least ask the Lord, is it possible there's some work I need to do with you before I go? And in humility, say to the Lord, I think I'm going for right reasons, but the first person I deceive is me. So I'm gonna review these principles and I highly recommend if there is someone in your life you trust. It is not gossip for me to call up Leah and say, I know I need to go talk to someone. Can I share with you kind of where I'm at? So I'm inviting you to speak into, am I ready?
Leah: Yeah. And that's so important. I think sometimes in Christian circles, we just avoid talking to anyone about what we're struggling with or how we feel because we don't want it to be gossip.
Janet: And I'm thankful for that.
Leah: Right, but in a time where we need. Godly wisdom spoken to us by another flawed person, right? Who can come alongside us and help point us back to the cross will help us be able to impart that grace. More easily, more freely. And we need each other.
Janet: We need each other for that. So I'm not going to say, Leah, can you believe what they did to me? You'd be mad too, wouldn't you? Shouldn't we be mad together? But I can go to you, even if I say that you get to let me know that's probably not the best way. But it, and it may be me saying I wanna go to them. I am still angry, but I think it's righteous. I'm not even, this is where I am. And you can ask me questions and it may surface. I think I'm better. One of the phrases that he used in this sermon series that really has stuck with me, you will never forgive someone you're superior to. How many things do I think I know I need to forgive you. But I would never do that. I am superior. And that can come out as I'm talking to you about. Okay. Am I ready? And you can, you know what? You might, need to be reminded, you know? So we need that. We need that. So these truths are so helpful to me. We haven't even discussed how to forgive in this podcast at all. We've addressed that to a degree in the very first one that we did, a couple seasons ago. So again, go back to that one. The scriptures tell us how to go, but right now all we've done in the last two episodes is why. Why? And that in itself draws my heart to love my savior even more. So I hope that's helpful to those listening as well.
To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage faithlafayette.org/JJP From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at joyfuljourneyquestions@outlook.com. Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.
Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their website.
