The Christmas Miracle — with Brent Aucoin

Janet Aucoin December 15, 2023

Jesus has many names, but one of His Names that is mentioned most at Christmas is Immanuel, meaning “God with us”. Where does this Name come from, and how are we supposed to understand the prophetic work of Isaiah in light of the Christmas story?

Janet's husband Pastor Brent joins us to help teach us how the old testament prophecy in Isaiah 7 foretells the birth of Christ, who is “God with us”

(Find this prophecy in Isaiah 7:14)

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Episode Transcript



⁠How Does the Bible Use the Bible? - Brent Aucoin⁠


⁠Faith Bible Seminary


Jocelyn: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.

Janet: I just want to make it as totally simple as possible for ladies to see that the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.

Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.

Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.

Janet: Hello. Welcome back. This is Janet here with Jocelyn.

Jocelyn: Hey friends.

Janet: And today for our special Christmas episode, we have a guest with us. Would you like to introduce yourself, honey?

Brent: Of course. I am Brent Aucoin, your husband.

Janet: So we've asked Brent to come on and share with us a special passage that is one that I think we look at a lot at Christmas, but we want to learn some more about. But before we get to that, why don't we take just a couple of minutes and share maybe some of our Christmas traditions that are fun. It is ironic for me to be saying this because probably our biggest tradition in our home is that every year it's different. So we're not really big on traditions, but we have a few. But how about you, Jocelyn?

Jocelyn: Oh, our family loves to do living nativity together.

Janet: Oh, wow.

Jocelyn: We generally do the second weekend. We always get very snowy and cold.

Janet: That's funny. We do the same weekend.

Jocelyn: Yeah. Usually because they need more people that weekend.

Janet: Yes.

Jocelyn: We love giving ornaments, like one ornament a year that is a special memory from that year. So like this year, our younger daughter will be getting an ornament that's a high school graduation ornament.

Janet: Nice.

Jocelyn: And older daughter will be getting a wedding ring or engagement ring or something like that. Since she's going to be married by Christmas.

Janet: So, will you keep those ornaments or do they get them?

Jocelyn: Well, the plan is that as soon as they get married and get their own house, then we package them up and send them off to their tree so they don't have an empty tree.

Janet: That's fun.

Jocelyn: It's nice to have a couple cute things. I have ornaments from when I was zero years old. on my tree at our house.

Janet: That's pretty fun.

Jocelyn: Yeah. From the time I was a baby until now. So it's cool. Get to think about all the cool stuff that's happened to you over your life.

Janet: Yes. How about you, Brent?

Brent: Well, I'm glad you asked. Those of you who may know me or have listened to me before at a conference or something like that know that I love Star Wars. And from an early age, my mom knew that as well. And she started getting me Star Wars, Hallmark Star Wars ornaments. And you know, she ultimately didn't know the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek. So occasionally she would

Jocelyn: There's a wrong one mixed in there?

Brent: Well, there's more than one wrong one. So eventually there were so many ornaments that we could not keep them all on Janet and I's regular tree. So we had to get a new tree. And I couldn't call it a Star Wars tree, because it just wasn't Star Wars and it couldn't call it Star Trek tree. So it's a space tree. So I love putting up a second tree every Christmas that is a space tree with all of the flashing spaceships on it.

Janet: Yes. And the kids that come to visit love that tree. So that is true. That is a definite tradition every year. I was, we were talking about it earlier. I do know that when the kids were little, we had our envelope of writing out what we were going to give to Jesus every year because it's his birthday.

Jocelyn: Oh, that is cool. That's neat.

Janet: So what were one year we went to a transitional housing and brought gifts for everybody there. One year it was a missionary that we knew was heading back to the field and couldn't afford books. And We got the book list and got everything for them. One year we did manual labor for some families that just needed some extra help. So each year it was a little different, but we would write it in an envelope that was like our birthday card to Jesus that the kids decorated when they were little. So that's one of our traditions that now that they're older, I mean, we, we still give, but we don't actually put it in a card for Jesus anymore, which we probably still should. But we don't. But that was fun. But what are you going to talk to us about today?

Brent: All right, ladies. Well, let me ask you a question first. You know, around Christmas time. There's only so many passages in scripture you go to to teach on. So what are some of your thoughts about favorite Christmas passages that we tend to teach on at Christmas time?

Jocelyn: Well, when I was little, our teacher told us that we were going to be memorizing Luke two. And I was like, what? The entire chapter?

Brent: The entire chapter.

Jocelyn: It was the longest scripture memory I ever did. But

Brent: would you like to quote that for me?

Jocelyn: No. I do remember certain pieces of it still, but Luke 2, that's what we read as a family on Christmas morning. And so it's like our passage, ours, no one else's.

Janet: So nobody better be reading it. That's the Wallace passage. That is certainly the one that I think about first. And then the other, I just think about from Isaiah that the virgin will be the child. I mean, you hear about that.

Brent: And Matthew quotes that. So Matthew quotes that in Matthew chapter one, and that's the passage we're going to talk about today. This really is the Christmas miracle that if we have eyes to see, would seal the debate about who Jesus of Nazareth really was. The virgin birth. There is debate about this passage as well, but the Immanuel child was given as a sign by God in Isaiah 7: 14, and 15 for the dawning of a new era. And that sign would be supernatural to gain the attention of everybody and show who This child really was. And all the while, the child would also fulfill all the promises of God to David as well. And at the time when Isaiah announced the prophecy of the virgin birth, he did it because It was for coming hope, because there was something that was happening at that moment in time that was going to plunge the world into darkness, and this was a sign of future hope. And here's what was going on. God was, at that time the prophecy was given, was ushering in a very dark period of judgment and discipline of God's people and her Davidic kings. The Davidic dynasty, you know, started well, with David, a man after God's own heart, but soon ended up immersed in the problem that we all have, which is idolatry. And in Isaiah, Isaiah is the harbinger of bad news in one sense, at the beginning of Isaiah, he was announcing a dark period that would result in the entire destruction of God's people as a nation. God's kingdom, the people of Israel would be destroyed as a nation. And that would result in some soul searching among the people because they began to question about whether God would be faithful. Do you remember what God promised about David?

Janet: That his dynasty would never end.

Jocelyn: He would be on the throne forever.

Brent: Yeah. And so God is ushering in a period of, well, severe discipline that would almost see God's kingdom destroyed, and the divinity

Janet: So it's like God is not doing what he said he would do.

Brent: Absolutely. We're going to see that. And I'm going to show you some passages where the people actually question that as well. It seems bleak and hopeless. And here's the hope, though. At the time when it seemed like the promises were dead, look to this sign. What is the sign? Virgin birth. I know we are so used to that, but in the Old Testament, you had, like, Abraham and Sarah, and at least they were, you know, living together as married couples and having relationships,

Janet: Right, right.

Brent: Even though she had a dead womb.

Janet: It was still miraculous, but we could understand it.

Jocelyn: It was possible.

Brent: It was still miraculous. But here we go, the lack of a possibility of an unmarried virgin lady having a child. So in the midst of the seemingly dead promises, if you look toward this sign of life, when it wasn't even possible, that also means that the promise of the Davidic kingdom, if it came through a Davidic lineage, was resurrected. And more than that, God himself would enter into the lineage of David and be the one who fulfills all of the promises that God had made. So when all seems bleak and hopeless God enters. You know, when you think about it, that would be the pattern that manifested in Jesus' own life as well. When all the expectations about Jesus being the king, coming in and ushering a new realm that was going to conquer Israel's political adversaries. All of a sudden he dies. And at the moment of darkest times, then he is resurrected again. So with that in mind let's just kind of go to the Christmas story, if you will. Ladies, you brought your Bibles?

Jocelyn: I did.

Brent: Or your phones?

Jocelyn: My electronic bible on my phone.

Brent: We've come so far. Or degenerated so far.

Jocelyn: Oh, come on now. I have many versions. I have many translations.

Brent: Many versions. Matthew chapter 1, verse 1. If you turn there, we're going to look at 1: 1 17, and then we're going to read the Christmas story. And then we're going to do a deep dive into Isaiah.

Jocelyn: Oh, cool.

Brent: So, this is going to be not a normal podcast. It'll be a Bible study type podcast.

Jocelyn: This is perfect for Christmas.

Brent: Perfect for Christmas. Matthew chapter 1, verse 1, the record of the genealogy of Jesus, the Messiah, the very next phrase, the Son of who?

Janet: David.

Brent: David. So, from the beginning, Matthew is tying it right back to David, and then he ties it back to the son of Abraham as well. So he goes to David first, jump down to verse 17. So all the generations from Abraham to David. David is a key figure here, are 14 generations from David to the deportation to Babylon, 14 generations and from Babylonian deportation to the Messiah, or release from the Babylon to Messiah is 14 generations. So key events here David, exile, release, Messiah. Something going on with David here, something going on with the exile. That was what I was talking to you about the destruction of the kingdom where The children of Israel went into exile and God destroyed his kingdom and the Davidic dynasty seemed dead. Into all of that darkness, let's go to verse 18. The birth of Jesus Christ was as follows. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. Joseph, her husband, being a righteous man and not willing to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly, but when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child who has been conceived in her, is of the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you will call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. Now all of this took place to fulfill what was spoken to the Lord through the prophet. Behold, the virgin, Will be with child and shall bear a son and they shall call his name Immanuel, which translated means God with us. Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord, commanded him and took Mary as his wife, but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a son and they called his name Jesus. Now, did you know that there was actually tension in this passage about Virgin birth ladies? I mean, and if you do know there's tension, what kind of tension is it?

Jocelyn: Well there's a whole swath of modern churches that do not believe in the virgin birth. They have discounted it because it seems incredulous.

Janet: I've heard that virgin could just mean young woman, doesn't necessarily mean she's never had sex.

Brent: Yep, so there is tension in this passage. Does it really mean virgin and all of that is unbelievable in that regard. Some of the tension actually comes because of the original context of the passage as well. Take a look. Now let's go back to Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14. I'm going to show you some of the tension and let's see if you can kind of pick it out. The tension may not be unjustified, but I want to show you something here, and it's going to take us a little while to unpack, but I think it'll be worth the effort when we do unpack it. I think it'll be amazingly beautiful. So look at Isaiah chapter 7, verse 14. So here is Isaiah speaking to King Ahaz. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel. We know that.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: Verse 15 is a little bit harder to understand. He. He, the child, will eat curds and honey at the time he knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. For behold, the boy-- okay, who's the boy? Who's the boy? He seems like Jesus. Okay, let's just go with the name of the child here is Immanuel. Okay, so Immanuel, before the boy Immanuel will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. Some of the problem here is verse

Janet: Yeah, I'm confused.

Brent: 16. Do you see a tension?

Jocelyn: What exactly are they talking about?

Brent: Okay, what are they talking about?

Janet: And if it's Jesus, did that not happen until he came?

Brent: I mean, Jesus, we're talking here in Isaiah about 750 BC, before Christ, BC, and we're talking about Jesus, for before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings, now that you dread, those lands will be destroyed. Two lands he's talking about is, the kingdom of Israel. And Syria, just north of Israel as well. So verse 16 seems to locate the Immanuel child in what time period?

Jocelyn: In 750 BC.

Janet: Right.

Brent: You got it. So, this is part of the problem here. Verse 16 is pretty confusing. This has led some to conclude like this. There was a child in Isaiah's time that this passage is referring to. And if you keep reading in chapter 8, Isaiah has a child. And so some people might say, well, it's referring to Isaiah's child.

Janet: But he's not born of a virgin.

Brent: But a virgin, yes. And that kind of contributes to does virgin really mean virgin or not?

Janet: Right.

Brent: Okay. And, you know, if the original passage referred to a child in Isaiah's time, then that was not miraculously virgin birthed. I think I just coined a term there, virgin birthed. Then we have sort of a, okay, you have to go with sort of a double fulfillment. There was some kind of really not a virgin birth child in Isaiah's time, but then somehow there was a typological fulfillment in Matthew that was escalated. So

Janet: that's just where my mind went. So I thought that's-- okay. I guess that's what you have to do. Yes.

Brent: And so those are some of the complicated things, but I think if we understand it, I think it's going to be beautiful to us.

Jocelyn: Oh, I can't wait. Cool.

Brent: So I do believe, and I didn't used to, okay, let me tell you my history. I used to believe preachers preach this as direct fulfillment, and, but sometimes they don't always go back into the original context. And growing up, I just took it on face value. Here is two lines of direct fulfillment. Okay, the Bible's true and the virgin birth, Jesus, and that was all that there was to it. Until I began to read the context of the Old Testament. And then when I began to read the context of the Old Testament, I was confused, just like you ladies were confused.

Janet: Right.

Brent: Because it didn't seem to be saying that in context. But today, I've, after study on this for years, I finally come to the conclusion that it's a beautiful, predictive prophecy. And I'm going to show you how.

Jocelyn: That's cool. I can't wait.

Brent: And if you see this, I think it's going to be amazing. Are you ready to be amazed, ladies?

Janet: Amaze us.

Jocelyn: Totally.

Brent: All right, before we get to the amazement part, we got to do some work. Are you ready to do some work, guys?

Janet: Well, all right. I just want to be amazed.

Brent: I hope the audience is ready to do some work as well. You guys, you ladies, or whoever's listening may want to put this on double speed. But anyway, I need to give you five background pieces of information before we understand this.

Jocelyn: Okay, alright.

Janet: Okay.

Brent: Ready for these five pieces?

Jocelyn: Ready.

Brent: Number one, cohesive. Isaiah is a cohesive message. Will you ladies say cohesive with me?

Janet: Cohesive.

Brent: So sometimes we don't see that. When we come to prophets, sometimes we think these prophets gave various kinds of strange oracles and visions and they're not related to one another. Sometimes we can really read the text in a not a very cohesive way. But Isaiah is a cohesive book. Okay. Actually, Isaiah 7 through 12 is sometimes referred to as the book of Emanual.

Jocelyn: Oh, that’s cool.

Brent: So we're not going to just read Isaiah 7: 14 without its context. So cohesive, number one, you got to remember that.

Jocelyn: Cohesive.

Brent: Okay. Number two, children.

Jocelyn: Children.

Brent: Are signs.

Jocelyn: Oh, children are signs.

Brent: Can you give me an, any indication of that from, from the Old Testament about where you see God coming along and promising children and they're signs and they're signifiers of things. Children are signs in many cases that God has used. Think of one, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn: Adam and Eve. Like, they got disciplined from the garden and God said he would send a seed through Eve that would destroy Satan.

Brent: There you go.

Janet: Yeah.

Brent: That's one So the seed of the woman would be a sign.

Janet: Abraham and Sarah.

Brent: Absolutely who had

Janet: who she was barren.

Brent: Yep.

Janet: And God said you will have a seed

Brent: Yep, so children and that seed was a promise Isaac also

Janet: Isaac and Rebecca.

Brent: And Rebecca. Rebecca was barren and had twins,

Jocelyn: Twins, yeah.

Brent: Jacob and Esau. How about Samson's mother and father?

Jocelyn: Oh, yeah. That's true.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: Walking in the footsteps of Abraham and Sarah in one sense. Manoah's wife was barren, and then they would have a son, Samson.

Janet: And Hannah.

Jocelyn: I was just thinking,

Brent: Hannah.

Jocelyn: I was wondering if Hannah counted.

Brent: So throughout scripture God has used children to be a sign. We're going to see signs today. Actually, in Isaiah chapter 7 through 10, there's four children, not just one, the Immanuel child. Real quick, turn to Isaiah chapter 7, verse 3. Okay? So, count how many children we have. I'll kind of lead you on this way. So, Isaiah 7, verse 3, Then the Lord said to Isaiah, Go out now to meet Ahaz, you and your son,

Janet: Shear-jashub.

Brent: Shear-jashub.

Jocelyn: We got one.

Brent: Not an easy one to say. Let's just call them sheer. Okay. Those are two Hebrew words together. Sheer means remnant. Yeshub is a verb that means to return. A son named a remnant will return.

Jocelyn: Okay.

Brent: That means something.

Janet: Right.

Brent: So, Isaiah 7: 14. Son number two, or child number two, Isaiah 7:14, this one you know. Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign, behold a virgin will be with child, and his name will be called?

Janet: Immanuel.

Brent: Okay, so the first son is Shear, the second son is Immanuel. How about Isaiah 8: 3? This is Isaiah, and he has a wife. I approached the prophetess, and she conceived, and gave birth to a son. Then the Lord said to me, Name him Maher Shalal Hashbaz. Doesn't that just roll off the tongue?

Jocelyn: I would think of that as a great name.

Brent: Swift is the booty. Something meaning that spoils of war are going to be taken away quickly.

Jocelyn: Oh, wow.

Brent: We'll just call him Mosh. So we got Shear and Mosh.

Jocelyn: Okay.

Brent: Okay.

Janet: And Immanuel child.

Jocelyn: And Immanuel child.

Brent: So there.

Jocelyn: Yes, three.

Brent: Three. Isaiah 9 6. For a child will be born to us, a son will be given, and the government will rest on his shoulders, and his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. So we have a fourth child here with many names. Four children in this book of Immanuel so far, but number two, Immanuel, and number four, are they the same or are they not?

Janet: That's what I was going to say. I thought they were supposed to be the same.

Brent: I'm going to submit to you that they are. Okay, so, here's the background information so far. Number one, cohesive. Number two, children have been for a sign. Number three, distant prophecy. Okay, how does that work? Distant prophecy.

Jocelyn: Is that as in, like, it will happen a very long time from now?

Brent: Yes, or longer than today.

Jocelyn: Okay.

Brent: So, distant prophecy. You know, sometimes you have this dynamic in Scripture, and and even with this Isaiah passage, when Isaiah says to King Ahaz, I'm going to give you a sign, a virgin will conceive. Well, what kind of sign is that to Isaiah? He's

Janet: He's never gonna see it.

Brent: 750 years later.

Jocelyn: Yeah, totally.

Brent: So what kind of sign is that?

Jocelyn: A sign for somebody else, not him.

Brent: Right. A sign for somebody else and not him. So how is that helpful?

Janet: Right.

Brent: So here's what would happen often in the Old Testament. God would give distant, far reaching signs. But he would confirm those with an immediate sign in the day of. And sometimes this is very subtle to catch, but it happens. In Genesis chapter 15, please don't turn there, but Genesis chapter 15, God says to Abraham, Your descendants are going to be so numerous, but I'm going to tell you they're going to be in Egypt, and I'm going to bring them out of Egypt. And I mean,

Janet: that's a long way away.

Jocelyn: That was 450 years.

Brent: That was maybe even longer than that.

Jocelyn: Yeah.

Brent: Abraham was around 2000 ish, and the Exodus was around 1450, that's a long time.

Jocelyn: Oh, 600. Yeah.

Brent: Do you remember what happened that night? You may not, but a vision came to, to Abraham where there was a fire, like a fiery pillar that was walking through two halves of an animal, so God gave an immediate confirming sign that night. Alright. number two, example of in Samuel , you ladies mentioned Hannah, during that time, God was going to be judging the priesthood of Eli. If you remember that story

Jocelyn: Yeah.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: And the priesthood was corrupt and a prophet comes to Eli and says, okay, not too long from now you're going to be well, you're going to be goner.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: The very next chapter. God comes to Samuel, Samuel doesn't heard the voice of the Lord yet, but now another confirming sign where Samuel hears God. And Eli says, okay, tell me what he said. So another immediate confirming sign.

Jocelyn: That’s cool.

Brent: I can't go into this one, but in first Kings chapter 13, when King Jeroboam, the split of the kingdom of Israel and Judah, when King Jeroboam sets up the northern idolatrous counterfeit religious system a prophet from the southern kingdom comes and says, on this altar A man will come and burn the bones of this counterfeit priesthood. Okay? Jereboam had set up a different worship system. So the prophet comes and says, one day there's going to be a man named Josiah. And this was 400 years later, that burns the bones of all of the counterfeit priests and to confirm that, the prophet says this altar will split. And almost immediately the altar split.

Jocelyn: Wow, that’s crazy.

Jaent: Yeah.

Brent: So here's what's happening. So, in those distant prophecies that were long time in coming, God would give an immediate confirming sign.

Jocelyn: It's like a sneak peek.

Brent: A sneak peek.

Jocelyn: It's coming.

Brent: It's coming. Okay, it's coming. So I'm going to tell you that that's the way that this works as well.

Jocelyn: Oh, that's cool.

Brent: Okay. In Isaiah chapter, because how many children do we have?

Jocelyn: Four.

Brent: Okay. one or two may be distant if they're the same one. And the other two may be

Jocelyn: Current.

Brent: Current. Okay. Also, remember, okay, so here's what we've had so far, cohesive child, how distant prophecy works with an immediate confirming sign. Other background material is this. Remember God's promise to David. You ladies already said it, but let me read it to you. 2 Samuel chapter 7 verse 8. 2 Samuel 7:8, and this is called the Davidic Covenant. Now therefore, thus you shall say to my servant David, Thus says the Lord of Hosts, I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people Israel, and I have been with you, okay, wherever you have gone and have cut off all of your enemies from before you, and I will make your name great like the names of the great men who are in the earth. I'm jumping to verse 12. When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I'm going to raise up for you a descendant after you who will come forth from you and I will establish his kingdom. And he will build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever, and I will be a father to him, and he will be a son to me. This is the promise of a perpetual dynasty where God says, I'm going to be with you. And if he commits sin, I'm going to correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the son of men. But my loving kindness... Janet, you did a podcast on chesed. This is the word chesed. My faithful covenant loyalty will not depart. Key. There's a promise. Okay, so a perpetual dynasty, but God will be with it even, with the dynasty, even though it seems like the dynasty may have died. Okay, so your house and your kingdom will endure with me forever. Okay, so remember that in regard to the Davidic covenant. Okay, so now our last one. You got, you got the first four?

Janet: Got it.

Brent: Let me repeat them. Okay. Cohesive. Isaiah's cohesive prophecy. Number two, children. Number three, the way distant prophecy works. Number four, Davidic promises of God being with them and a covenant loyalty that will not go away. And number five, I kind of already mentioned this, but the context of Isaiah is the house of David has committed iniquity. The kings are going the way of idolatry and God promised that he would discipline them. And this is the beginning of that very catastrophic that would ultimately result in the destruction of the kingdom of God's people and the apparent death of the Davidic dynasty. All we know that, though, is that God is faithful, and even if it appears somebody has died, what can he do?

Jocelyn: Resurrect them.

Brent: Yes.

Janet: He can raise the dead.

Brent: And it got so bad, though, that the people will say, God is not faithful. Or they're at least questioning it. Listen to Psalm 89 verse 19. You don't have to turn there. Here's what the lamenting psalmist says Once you spoke your vision to your godly ones And here's your vision. I have found david my servant With my holy one. I have anointed him verse 24 My faithfulness and my loving kindness Will be with him My loving kindness I will keep him forever. My covenant with him will be confirmed So, I will establish his descendants forever. If his sons forsake my law and do not walk in my judgments, then I will punish their transgressions with the rod, but I will not break off my loving kindness from him. And here's what the psalmist then says. But you have cast off and rejected. You have been full of wrath against your anointed. How long, O Lord, will you hide yourself forever? Where is your former chesed? They're doubting it right now, which you swore to David. Okay, so the fifth thing we're learning is that Isaiah is all about judgment and the coming discipline. It begins with judgment, and in fact, before our chapter in Isaiah 7, Isaiah 6, that great scene of the holy, holy, holy God, and I would love to unpack it, but I don't have time, but that is the message that Isaiah gets, and God calls Isaiah to be his prophet and his preacher. And basically it says this you're going to preach to these people, but they're not going to listen. They're blind and deaf and you're going to preach to them, but they will not listen because I'm sealing them and their judgment and discipline is coming. Okay. And even as we get off of chapter six in chapter seven, we see an immediate. application of that because Isaiah comes to King Ahaz, and King Ahaz will not listen. And God seals, seals Israel in this judged state, but he doesn't leave them there forever because he promises hope. What is the hope? Isaiah 7:14, and I'm going to show you how that works now, okay? After we review. Here's what we're reviewing, okay? The background information, number one, cohesiveness.

Jocelyn: Cohesion, yes.

Brent: Number two, child.

Jocelyn: Children.

Brent: Number three.

Janet: Oh, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, I know it,

Brent: long.

Jocelyn: long range prophecy.

Janet: Oh yeah. Distant prophecy.

Brent: Number four, the promise to who?

Jocelyn: David.

Brent: David.

Jocelyn: The Davidic covenant.

Brent: God is with him and his chesed will not leave.

Janet: Yes.

Jocelyn: Even though it may seem like it. Number five.

Janet: Judgment.

Brent: Judgment.

Jocelyn: Judgment.

Brent: All right. Turn with me to Isaiah chapter seven. I am, at verse one. Okay. During the reign of Ahaz, so this is a Davidic king. During the reign of Ahaz, son of Jotham, son of Uzziah, king of Judah. King Rezem of Syria and King Pekka, son of Amalia of Israel, marched up to Jerusalem. Just a quick context, okay? At this time we have a division of the, of Israel into the northern kingdom led by Pekka, and the southern kingdom led by King Ahaz, and the northern kingdom, King Pekka, who's the king, has made an alliance with somebody further north in Syria. And that is King Rezin. So two kings are coming against the southern king, Ahaz. The southern king is the Davidic king, okay? And why are they trying to get King Ahaz on their side? They're trying to get Ahaz to come join them because there's a brutal nation coming and it's Assyria. So they're trying to get the Davidic king to join them together against a foreign enemy.

Jocelyn: They're making an alliance.

Brent: They're trying to

Jocelyn: Okay.

Brent: Well, Syria and the northern kingdom are and they're trying to get Judah to join them And they basically say this if you don't we're gonna come fight you. Okay Verse 2 it was reported to the family of David or the house of David Notice the emphasis on the Davidic, okay? Syria, so north of the northern kingdom of Israel, has allied with Ephraim, the northern kingdom, and they and their people were emotionally shaken. So the southern kingdom is scared out of their wits, just as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. So the Lord told Isaiah, go out with your son. Now tell me this, what are children for?

Janet: A sign.

Brent: Go out with your son, and somewhere, we haven't been told how, but somehow, Isaiah knew to name him Sheer Jashub, a remnant will return. If you're talking about a remnant, what's coming?

Janet: Some destruction.

Jocelyn: The loss of a bunch of people.

Brent: A loss of a bunch of people. So Isaiah's child, so how many sons do we have right now in the picture?

Jocelyn: One.

Brent: One. Go out with your son, and your son is a sign, because you're supposed to stand here with your son before... The Davidic king, and I want you to say something. Verse 4, tell him basically don't fear, don't be afraid, don't be intimidated by these two stubs of smoking logs. Don't be worried about Pecca and Resin. Who are you? You're the Davidic king. I've made a promise to you. Okay, so don't be concerned about them by the raging anger of Resin of Syria or the son of Remalia. I think he doesn't mention the name of the northern king here because the son of Remalia, who is Ahaz, a distant son of? He's wanting Ahaz to remember you're a son of somebody. Who are you A son of?

Jocelyn: Son of David.

Brent: Oh yeah, and remember, the promise is for you. Verse 5, Syria has plotted with Ephraim and the son of Ramalia, the northern kingdom, to bring about your demise. They say, let's attack Judah, terrorize it and conquer it, then we'll set up the son of Tabeel as its king. I know you're probably not going to catch this, but what are they doing when they try to set up a different king?

Jocelyn: Making a puppet government for them, right?

Brent: Right, but what does that mean for the current

Janet: So the Davidic dynasty would be over.

Brent: Point! That's the point. They're plotting to throw over the Davidic dynasty. And what has God promised?

Jocelyn: That it will never be overthrown.

Brent: Point! That's the point. They're plotting to throw over the Davidic dynasty. And what has God promised?

Jocelyn: That it will never be overthrown.

Brent: It will never be overthrown. So, for this reason, the sovereign master of the Lord says this. This is what God says. It's not going to take place. It's not gonna happen. For Syria's leader, Syria is north of the North Kingdom. For Syria's head is Damascus, the capital. And in the capital, the leader of Damascus is the king, Rezan. Within 65 years, Ephraim will no longer exist as a nation. Okay, the Northern Kingdom will not exist anymore either because Assyria is coming. And Ephraim's leader, so the Northern Kingdom's capital, is Samaria, and Samaria's king is the son of Remalia. And I think this structure right here is trying to help Ahaz remember something. Ahaz, what is your capital? Do you remember the capital of Judah? What was the...

Janet: Jerusalem.

Brent: Jerusalem. Ahaz, okay. What is your head? Jerusalem. And Jerusalem is the son of David. Who are you the son of?

Jocelyn: Son of David.

Brent: So son of David, you were given the promise of permanence here. And then God says this. If your faith does not remain firm, then you will not remain secure, meaning God is going to judge him. In verse 10, then the Lord again spoke to Ahaz. So the Lord is trying to help Ahaz be confident and secure in the promises that God has given.

Janet: And I'm just struck by how merciful that is, because Ahaz has not been a Godly man.

Brent: Well, I'm gonna tell you at this point, Ahaz has already made an alliance with somebody else. Ahaz has already made an alliance with. Assyria. It's not said in this text, but in other places in the Bible. He has gone to an ultimate distant enemy and said, will you help me against these two? And that same enemy will ultimately came against him eventually. But you're right, Janet, God is condescending and he condescends even more in just a moment. So the Lord again spoke to Ahaz. ask for a confirming sign. I will give you one. I will give you one. yOu can even ask for something and literally it says this, as high as the heavens or as deep as Sheol. So, here is something that God doesn't do too often, but Ahaz, I will show you, you are my Davidic son, and I want you to be confident and secure in this, that the Davidic dynasty, as I stand and as I live, will not falter. So you do not have to fear, and you do not have to go and seek an alliance with Assyria. That would be trusting in warhorses, trusting in the might of man, as opposed to trusting in God. Ask me for something as high as heaven or as deep as Sheol. What does that mean, as high as heaven or as deep as Sheol? What is God saying?

Jocelyn: There’s no limit.

Brent: There’s no limit. Yeah.

Janet: Anything.

Brent: Anything. How about something miraculous?

Janet: Yeah.

Brent: Yes. So, you know, raise my mother from the dead. He could have asked for that. God is condescending to him and saying, I want you to believe. Look at verse 12, but Ahaz responded, I don't want to ask, I don't want to put the Lord to the test. Good thing or bad thing?

Jocelyn: It sounds a little pious, in my opinion.

Janet: Well, when God's told you to ask, I think it's more testing him to not do what he just said.

Brent: Ah, you're exactly right. This is a pious response. And Ahaz's trust is already in Assyria.

Jocelyn: Right. He's already made an alliance.

Brent: Okay. Now, I'm going to tell you, this was a crucial testing moment. This sealed the coming discipline of the Davidic house. Ahaz did not believe. Okay. And this was a critical moment, and there's some of those throughout redemptive history. Ahaz did not believe, and God sealed Ahaz and Israel in their blindness. And therefore, from this point on, God will, as He promised, I'm going to discipline the Davidic sons. So, God will bring about chastening to the point of death. Verse 13, So Isaiah replied, Pay attention, and what does yours say? Pay attention what?

Jocelyn: House of David.

Janet: House of David.

Brent: Notice it is broader than just,

Jocelyn: Ahaz.

Brent: Please notice, it's broader than just Ahaz, House of David. So meaning the entire lineage of David from here on out. Pay attention House of David. Do you consider yourself too insignificant to try the patience of men? Is that why you're also trying my patience? For this reason, the Sovereign Master Himself will give you a confirming sign. Here is the sign. To who? Not just Ahaz. To who?

Janet: The house of David.

Jocelyn: To the house of David.

Brent: You got it. Okay, to the house of David for however long it lasts and however many lineages go. Someday, someday, Look here, the virgin or the unmarried woman will conceive and will give birth to a son and you will name him God with you, Immanuel. Now... God promises this, and, and it says the Hebrew word is Alma, and yes, here's what it typically means. A woman who has not had children, which means an unmarried woman, technically, if, unless you're promiscuous, and one who has not had intercourse. Now, can you have had intercourse without being married, yes. So the most natural reading is virgin. buT it could also mean a woman who has not ever had children before. So, immediately, the sign may not have been understood as miraculous. Maybe they thought an unmarried woman would go through the normal processes of childbirth and have a baby. Okay? But I'm going to tell you something. What kind of sign did God ask Ahaz to give?

Jocelyn: Without limit.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: Without limit.

Jocelyn: Yeah.

Brent: And what kind of sign does God, he says, an unmarried woman, a woman who has not had children will conceive. It would be consistent with the nature of our God to make this a sign that is as high as heaven or deep as Sheol. So, while they may not have fully understood this was going to be as high as heaven or deep as Sheol, but when it comes true, don't miss it.

Janet: Then they see it.

Jocelyn: It's incredulous. Yeah.

Brent: Okay. And his name will be

Jocelyn: Immanuel.

Brent: God with us. It'll be a different kind of king. Because what's happening is this child will be the replacement for the Davidic dynasty. King Ahaz is sealed in his judgment Verse 15, This child will eat sour milk and honey which will help him to know how to reject evil and choose what is right. You want to guess?

Jocelyn: Expound on what that means.

Brent: You don't want to guess what that means?

Jocelyn: I think my guesses will be wrong.

Brent: I think eventually as we read a few of the more of the rest of the passages, it'll become clear. But what's going to happen is God is executing his judgment, and the cities will be devastated, and the people will be scattered into the fields, and it will be an agrarian society once again. Here's what's happening. From this point on, God is declaring judgment and discipline. The kingdom will be destroyed. The cities where there's wine and feasting will be no more. And the people will be scattered like nomads. They will have flocks, and so they will eat

Janet: curds and honey

Brent: agrarian type things. The point is this. The kingdom will be plundered, and Immanuel will inherit, when he comes, he will inherit a plundered, despoiled people. I want you to hang on to that for a while. Okay. Verse 15. Okay. Now, verse 16. Here is why this will be so. Before this child knows how to reject evil and choose what is right, the land whose two kings you fear will be desolate, the land Ephraim, the northern kingdom, and Syria, the even north of that, the ones who are plotting against you, they're going to be destroyed before this child knows how to reject evil and choose what is good. The Lord will bring on you and your people and your father's family a time like None other. And what's going to happen is the king of Assyria is coming. And at that time the Lord will whistle for flies from the distant streams of Egypt and for bees from the land of Assyria. Verse 21. At that time a man will keep alive a young cow from the herd and a couple of goats and from the abundance of milk they produce. There's our milk again. The destruction of the northern kingdom and of Syria. And it's even going to come close to Judah as well. So the land is going to be desolated. But what's the problem? Verse 16. Before this child knows how to reject evil. Okay. This is the crux of the issue, ladies. Have you put it together yet? And

Janet: No.

Brent: No.

Jocelyn: I'm excited for what we'll learn.

Brent: Okay. Okay. How many children have we seen up to this point? Two. Two. Okay, which one is present? Shear. A remnant will return. Okay. Verse 16. What is it a reference to? Before this child.

Jocelyn: Before Shear.

Janet: Before Shear knows to reject.

Brent: Who's standing right in front of King Ahaz.

Jocelyn: Shear. Yeah.

Brent: Why did God have Isaiah bring Shear?

Jocelyn: As a reminder that a remnant will return.

Brent: Yes. And what are children for?

Jocelyn: A sign.

Brent: What would your background be?

Jocelyn: A sign.

Brent: Okay, so here is the distant prophecy. God gives the house of David the distant prophecy. Look for this, a virgin will conceive. And as an immediate sign, Shear was there. And here's his name. A remnant will return. Now in 25 years from this time, Israel is destroyed by Assyria. Okay. But God gives one more sign. Look at chapter 8. Go to chapter 8, verse 1. Okay. And the Lord told me this. This is Isaiah speaking. Take a large tablet and scribe these words on it with an ordinary stylus. Mahir shalal hashbaz. Swift is the booty and speedy is the prey. We should make a song about this.

Janet: Nice worship song.

Brent: That's right, and we can repeat it over and over like worship songs do. Then I will summon as my reliable witness. So here's what's happening. He's writing a name. On a stone tablet, before she's pregnant. And he's summoning a priest, Uriah the priest, verse 3. And then I had sexual relationships with a prophetess. She conceived and gave birth to a son. The Lord told me, Name him Maher Shalal Hashbas. For before this child knows how to cry out, my father or my mother, the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off. Impending judgment. And, he knew he would have a child before she was even pregnant. And he named him this. Swift is the booty and speedy is the prey. Second confirming child. This is the way that the prophecy is working. Distant, okay. So here's what's happening. God gave the house to David future distant promise, the virgin will conceive. And that child, whose name will be God is with us, would inherit a plundered and despoiled kingdom and to verify that God gave two children to confirm that that would happen. And so the rest of the Jewish history, you should be looking one day, you should be looking one day for something as high as heaven or as deep as Sheol. And when you see it. Then take notice. Right? Now look at verse 5 in chapter 8. And the Lord spoke to me again. These people have rejected the gently flowing waters of Shiloh, and they melt in fear over resin of Syria and the northern kingdom. Verse seven. So look, the sovereign master is bringing up against them the turbulent and mighty waters of the Euphrates River, meaning this, Assyria is coming and he's going to destroy those folks. And verse eight, it will spill into Judah, flooding and engulfing. So even the kingdom of David will be affected by this. As it reaches to the neck, it'll go even up to Jerusalem and Assyria will spread out his wings over your entire land. What is the next word in your, in your versions?

Janet: Immanuel.

Jocelyn: Immanuel.

Brent: He will, Assyria will devastate your entire land, whose land, whose land, say the word again.

Jocelyn: Immanuel.

Brent: So in the Hebrew, what is this a reference to? The child, the promised God with us. And what is this saying? The child who is born, whenever he is born will inherit a desolated land. However, however, we might say that the Davidic kingdom is broken, and the nations have won. So but, but, look at verse 8. You will be broken, O nations. The ones who are perpetuating this. You will be shattered. Pay attention, all you distant lands of the earth. Get ready for battle, and you will be shattered one day. Get ready for battle, and you will be shattered. Devise your strategy, but it will be thwarted. Issue your orders, but they will not be executed for

Janet: God is with us.

Brent: Oh, but I want, what is that word?

Jocelyn: Immanuel.

Brent: It's the exact same word. Your versions translate it as God is with us, but while the nations are doing their destruction of God's kingdom, be careful, because

Janet: Immanuel.

Brent: Immanuel, this child, and, and, well, I just, and this harkens to chapter 9.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: But we're not going to get there just yet. Just remember this. The nations seem to have their day in destroying God's precious and beloved kingdom of Israel and the Davidic dynasty. The nations have their day. But devise your strategy, but it won't stand because of Immanuel, this child. Verse 11. Isaiah now says, Indeed, this is what the Lord has told me. He took hold of me firmly and warned me not to act like these people. Do not say conspiracy every time these people say the word. Don't be afraid of what scares them. Don't be terrified. You must recognize the authority of the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the Lord who commands armies. He's commanding all of this. He is the one you must respect. He is the one you must fear. Verse 16. Tie up the scrolls. Meaning, Isaiah has given these prophecies, tie them up to be revealed at the appropriate time, seal the official record of God's instructions, and this is about the Immanuel, and give it to my followers. I will wait patiently for the Lord who has rejected The family of Jacob. I will wait for him because right now it's dark and desolate. Verse 18. Look, I and the sons whom the Lord has given me are reminders and object lessons in Israel. They are signs. What are the children for again?

Jocelyn: A sign.

Brent: ming the distant Immanuel. Okay. Let's jump down to chapter nine. Now this begins to look past all of the desolation that God will execute on the land. The gloom one day will be dispelled for those who were anxious. In earlier times, he humiliated the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali. But now he will bring honor by the way of the sea, the region beyond the Jordan and Galilee of the nations. The people walking in darkness will see a bright light. Light shines on those who have lived in this dark state for that long. Verse six. Why don't you ladies start with verse six?

Jocelyn: For a child will be born to us.

Brent: A child, here it is. A son will be given to us. He shoulders responsibility and he is called extraordinary, I'm reading a different version than you, extraordinary strategist, wonderful counselor, mighty God, mighty God. Those are deity terms. And that should hearken us back to God with us, Immanuel, Everlasting Father, deity terms, Prince of Peace. His dominion will be vast, and he will bring immeasurable prosperity. And what is the next phrase? He will rule where?

Jocelyn: On the throne of David.

Brent: Is this the same child? And over David's kingdom, establishing it, strengthening it? So God pronounces judgment on the Davidic house through King Ahaz. But he promised. Some sign as high as heaven and as deep as earth that would come someday, and they may have not fully understand, yes, it's going to be a virgin, but when it happens, take note, take note. This is the one. Okay. So the meaning of this, here's the meaning of Isaiah 7:14. The Lord himself is going to enter into the Davidic dynasty, God with us, and it's going to be a supernatural event. A virgin, this time a literal virgin, one who has no possibility of life, in human understanding. A literal virgin will be with child and bear a son and she will call his name, God with us. And he will inherit a desolated kingdom as indicated by all of the destruction that we have seen. Now, let me ask you, why does Matthew start with, here is the lineage of Jesus, the son of who?

Janet: David.

Brent: Okay. And then he kind of ends with, from Abraham to David was 14 generations from David to the exile.

Jocelyn: Yeah.

Brent: That David to the exile, the discipline of God's people and the exile that seemed to bring about the demise of the Davidic kingdom. And then from the release of the exile to the time of Messiah, 14 generations. And then all of a sudden, here we have a virgin conceives. And what are we supposed to see? This is God's work, bringing life, resurrected life into the dead Davidic dynasty. And all of Israel is supposed to take notice of this. This is the Promised One, and is it supernatural? As high as heaven or as deep as Sheol?

Janet: Absolutely.

Brent: Absolutely. I did some research on this and a guy named Motier, who did a commentary, and I got some of my thoughts from him. He didn't tie all of these connections, but he says in the Virgin Birth, We have a sign that lives up to its promise. Heaven and earth will be truly moved. Isaiah foresaw the birth of the divine son of David and also laid the foundation for the understanding of the unique nature of his birth. And if he is truly God with us. Who is Jesus?

Janet: He’s God.

Brent: He is God. And let me ask you this. When Jesus comes on the scene, does he inherit a plundered kingdom, a people who are despoiled? Is there any evidence in scripture that that's the kind of people that he's ministering to? This may be a little guess what Brent is thinking kind of question, but, do you remember Jesus Christ coming and, and as he begins his ministry, who is he ministering to?

Jocelyn: The lowly and the downcast and the rejects.

Brent: Where does he start his ministry?

Jocelyn: With fishermen.

Brent: Fishermen. Location wise, does he start in the city of the great king of Jerusalem?

Jocelyn: No.

Brent: Sea of Galilee. The north part of... And what was destroyed first in that time? The north as Assyria came down. So, and in Matthew chapter four, this is said of Jesus, and leaving Nazareth, he came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea in the region of Zebulun in Naphtali. This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, and I just read it. The land of Zebulun, the land of Naphtali, by the way of the sea beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles, the people who were sitting in darkness saw a great light, and those who were sitting in the land in the shadow of death, upon them light dawned. From that time, Jesus began to preach. And he began to preach even in a sermon on the mount, blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are those who mourn. He's coming to a despoiled, downcast, plundered kingdom that Immanuel inherits inherits. So what is our response to this? God's carefully crafted prophecy and astounding fulfillment results in our awe-inspired faith in and praise for an amazing God and his beautiful plan of redemption. And the way that this becomes not confusing is that verse 16, there's two children in that passage. One is the immediate sign and one is the distant sign. And if you get that, then all of this makes perfect sense and shows you the identity. That God came down to earth in the name of Immanuel, and indeed, a sign as high as heaven and as deep as Sheol, and that is the Christmas miracle.

Jocelyn: That’s so cool.

Janet: That's excellent. I think how easy it is to almost take for granted, yeah, Jesus is God. And then, but to think about. How that should impact us, how that would have impacted them, that a virgin is going to give birth to God who is going to come and resurrect the dynasty that he resurrects

Jocelyn: Yeah the kingdom of David.

Brent: He resurrects it.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: But then also that happens in his life.

Janet: Yes.

Brent: When all seemed lost. And so even all of that was for our-- earlier you were talking about God condescends to us, and even in our unbelief. But even here we go to the cross, and everyone is thinking all of this is over when he's dying, but then he's risen again.

Janet: Yeah.

Brent: Okay.

Jocelyn: So do you think the Israelites knew all this stuff when they were waiting for the Messiah? Like is this why they were so anxious for the Messiah? Because they knew this?

Brent: They were looking for the consolation of Israel. You, you ladies mentioned Luke 2 and it says that there's a priest and a lady in the temple looking for the consolation of Israel. They were looking, but they always did not know exactly what they were looking for.

Janet: So there was trust. They just didn't understand it all.

Brent: Who understood it all?

Janet: Absolutely.

Brent: Who understood Isaiah 53

Janet: Who would think this?

Brent: That the coming king would be born to suffer first. It was there. In the Old Testament, but remember Jesus was born in Bethlehem of a virgin He wasn't born in the palace in the king at Jerusalem So all of this is upside down compared to what we typically think. So it's there in the old testament But it only required God's continued revelation for us to put all the pieces together. But when the pieces were there, he expects us to believe.

Janet: To see it.

Brent: To see it. But but no, in the beginning, all of this was complicated.

Jocelyn: But because you would think if they had known this way more people would have accepted Jesus.

Brent: Absolutely.

Jocelyn: He's the one we've been waiting for.

Janet: They're waiting for a virgin to have a child.

Brent: But also. Even if you would have somebody raised from the dead, they would not what?

Janet: Believe. That's right.

Brent: Okay, so King Ahaz.

Janet: Unless God has prepared their heart.

Brent: The point, King Ahaz's heart was hardened and blind.

Janet: Yeah.

Brent: So he refused a super--.

Janet: He was offered a miraculous sign.

Brent: He was offered a miraculous, so he could have had one. But it would not have made a difference. He could have had one because he had a hardened heart. And regrettably, many people do, unless God gives us eyes to believe, ears to hear.

Jocelyn: And I was just doing my devotions this morning. I was noticing this theme of belief in it that Jesus said in Mark, Jesus was amazed at their unbelief, like as a whole, we are

Janet: Right.

Jocelyn: Radically unbelieving people.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. So, that's the Christmas miracle.

Jocelyn: That's amazing.

Brent: And there is a hour and a half long session on this if you go to faithlafayette. org/virgin birth. There's me teaching at one of our Wednesday night sessions. And you can, if you want the

Janet: We'll have a link for this.

Brent: Whole blown thing and an hour and a half long. If that's, if that's your thing, you can watch me teach on that. And so And there's a more extended treatment of this.

Jocelyn: One thing I love about our Christmas episode on the podcast is that it's always Christological. Like we're learning something more deep about Christ.

Janet: Yes.

Jocelyn: And it deepens our worship of him, our understanding of him. And, you know, we talk about a lot of topics that are really pertinent to everyday living, but I love the Christmas episode because we just look at Christ.

Janet: Yes.

Jocelyn: We just look at

Janet: Which is the point of all of it

Jocelyn: him more deeply and worship him more profoundly because of it.

Janet: Yes. And to think, you know, what's a practical as Brent was talking, I thought, okay. They, because what they thought would happen, the dynasty would last forever, they start doubting because the dynasty's gone. Not thinking, oh, maybe God will resurrect the dynasty from the dead. And how many things in my life am I saying, God, how is this even good? I don't understand.

Jocelyn: There's nothing but spoiled, ruined.

Janet: And to be able to say--, Yes.

Jocelyn: Yeah.

Janet: And I don't have to understand it. Here's what I know about God. He will be faithful to his word. I don't have to wonder that and that is my hope and that's an anchor for me even when I don't understand anything else going on.

Brent: Now one more closing thought here as we kind of read Matthew Sometimes we read the New Testament and we think, how did the authors get that from the original context back in the Old Testament? And I'm just going to say this as we close. They knew more than we did. And the apostles did not take things out of context. So they knew the context better than us. And so I get excited because this is not just some kind of typological fulfillment, although it But that doesn't necessarily diminish it. God spoke this, and it was true, and it was a direct prophecy, and it came to pass just as he said. The Christmas miracle.

Janet: Love it. Well, Merry Christmas.

Jocelyn: Merry Christmas.

Brent: Merry Christmas.

To keep from missing any future episodes, please sign up for our newsletter on our webpage From there you can also subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify. You can also visit us on our Facebook page or Instagram at Joyful Journey Podcast. If you have questions or comments for us, you can email us at Joyful Journey Podcast is a ministry of Faith Bible Seminary. All proceeds go to offset costs of this podcast and toward scholarships for women to receive their MABC through Faith Bible Seminary.

Host Janet and her husband, Brent, also speak at a variety of conferences as a way to raise money for the seminary. If you want to look at what they offer or book them for a conference, go to their website.

Janet Aucoin


Janet is the Director of Women's Ministry at Faith Church (Lafayette, IN); Host of the Joyful Journey Podcast (helping women learn that when you choose truth you choose joy); ACBC certified; teacher in Faith Community Institute; Coordinator of FBS seminary wives fellowship, retreat and conference speaker; B.S. Human Resources, University of South Florida.