Wayward Children - with Stuart Scott
Resources:
Podcasts/Lectures
Books
Wayward Children - Stuart Scott
From Heartbroken to Hopeful - Shirely Elliott
Come Back, Barbara - John Miller and Barbara Miller Juliani
When Good Kids Make Bad Choices - Elyse Fitzpatrick and Jim Newheiser
It’s Not Too Late - Margy Tripp
Do Not Hinder Them - Justin Peters
Website
Transcript:
Jocelyn: I don't just need to feel better. I need the truth. And ultimately that will make me better.
Janet: I just want to make it as totally simple as possible for ladies to see that the Bible is really applicable to their everyday life.
Jocelyn: When they understand theology, the application flows out of it quickly with joy.
Janet: It is a journey, but even the journey itself is joyful when I'm doing it, holding the hand of my savior and trusting him all along the way. This is the joyful journey podcast, a podcast to inspire and equip women to passionately pursue beautiful biblical truth on their journey as women of God. When you choose truth, you're choosing joy.
Janet: All right. Welcome back, listeners. This is Janet once again, and I have a returning special guest this time. Stuart Scott is with us. He was with us at least once. Has it been once or twice?
Stuart: I think it was once on pride and humility.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: I think.
Janet: Yes. So go back. If you didn't, we'll have that one linked in the show notes as well. So some listeners may remember you, but not all of them will. So can you tell us, Stuart, a little bit about who you are and just a little bit about your family?
Stuart: Okay. I'll try to keep it short. The Lord has just been really kind to me and to our family. But if I were just to say I, grew up in a Christian home.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: With Christian parents, made numerous professions of faith growing up.
Janet: Numerous.
Stuart: Numerous, but nothing genuine. No genuine conversion until I was almost 18 at a boarding school down in Christian boarding school.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: That was my choice, trying to get away from my parents and their faith and I go to a Christian boarding school. You just have to think back. That was pretty stupid, but.
Janet: The Lord used it.
Stuart: But the Lord. That's exactly where the Lord wanted me, and I heard more, watering of the Word, right? The seed was planted by my parents and church, but the Lord was graced me with salvation then, and then I went, there's lot to fill in there.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: But I went into the ministry to help disciple men.
Janet: Love it.
Stuart: Encourage them. Pastored and then associate pastor at different churches. Married to my wife, Zandra. This is 45 years now.
Janet: Wow, that's so great.
Stuart: And, so she's such a blessing. We have two children, adult children now, and two grandchildren, and another on the way.
Janet: Ooh, that's exciting.
Stuart: Our son, this'll be their first. So a little bit history there. My exposure to biblical counseling was here at Faith Church.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: Back in 1987. So that was the first week. It was all for missionaries.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And Randy Patton got me in 'cause I didn't know what to do in ministry. I was referring out to psychologists, psychiatrists, and
Janet: Yep.
Stuart: Therapists. And he said, you need not something more than the Bible, you need more of the Bible. So it's not something added, but just more of it and how it applies. And that just, that was just a complete worldview change for me.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: In ministry. And that's what kind of put me on pathway to encourage others in the area of the sufficiency of scripture and biblical counseling for all these years.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: So what am I doing now? I just finished a four-year stint at Bob Jones University.
Janet: Yep.
Stuart: At the seminary level. Trying to organize and get them ready to go towards a training center for ACBC.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: But before then I was at Master's University, helping there in the graduate program, and before that at Southern Seminary. So I've moved around at different schools and trying to help future pastors, Christian workers, women leaders in the church. Not pastors, but women leaders.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: That's the big topic right now, obviously this week down in Orlando. That's been just a passion of mine for God's people, to encourage them that God has answers for the issues that they're struggling with, and God's bigger than their big problems
Janet: Which leads you to you've been teaching in our seminary.
Stuart: Yes.
Janet: Master of Arts in Biblical Counseling, which is why you're here this week.
Stuart: Yes.
Janet: Yes. How many classes do you teach with us?
Stuart: One.
Janet: You just do the one?
Stuart: The one.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: In the summer.
Janet: Okay. And that, what is that on?
Stuart: Marriage and family.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: And I don't know how many years. Since the program began, so I don't know how many years.
Janet: You've been doing it from the beginning?
Stuart: Yes, from the beginning.
Janet: Okay. So That's exciting.
Stuart: It is a blessing. I always enjoyed looking forward to this week every June.
Janet: Yeah. We like having you up here. So I've asked Stuart to come and share with us, not on everything with marriage and family. That would probably be a bit much for one podcast.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: But specifically, you wrote a 31-day devotional on wayward children. I've been personally encouraged by it. I'm actually going through it with a few friends and I was telling you earlier, wayward anyone we love, this is really helpful for.
Stuart: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Janet: But I get that there is a special heart we have for our children, and so I love the focus, but I'm seeing it help me think about what does it mean to trust God in other hard areas of my life as well.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Yeah. What led you to write this?
Stuart: I think what led me to write this particular book on that topic.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: When we were early on in parenting, my wife and I, we thought, how hard can this be?
Janet: Isn't that fun?
Stuart: When they're tiny babies, little, you dress them, you put them.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: I would look at parents whose teenagers or adult children walked away from the faith or never had faith, obviously.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And I went, how did they fail?
Janet: Yeah, what did the parents do wrong?
Stuart: That's right. That's right.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: So I was already thinking product-oriented parenting. You do this, you get this.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And in my mind, I wouldn't have probably said this or preached it, but I thought, if we do it right, God's gonna save all of our children, at an early age.
Janet: I think it's so good that you say that because I think many of us are there and don't even know it. We didn't.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: Write it on a theology exam. Here's what I think. But the reality is, and I can remember even when I had to come to grips with the fact that's not true, that felt scary.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: As if it was scarier to trust God than to trust my performance.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: But yeah.
Stuart: But I think most Christian parents think having children, they're automatically gonna get saved.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: That God.
Janet: I just do my part.
Stuart: That's right. God promises all your children will come to faith in Christ.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And there's no promise like that in the Bible and they misuse Proverbs oftentimes.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: So when I, the older they got, they made early professions of faith. My children did. We have two.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: A daughter and a son. And when they made early professions of faith, I grew up in a home like that, and I made, as I mentioned.
Janet: Yes, numerous professions.
Stuart: Numerous. Yeah. Yeah. So Vacation Bible Schools. And people do get saved. My wife got saved at a Vacation Bible School. But the pressure, every camp experience on a Friday night.
Janet: Yes, come forward.
Stuart: I was even watching Crusades, the Billy Graham Crusades, and when I was a kid on TV, and it was like I'd walk forward, and he'd say.
Janet: Toward the TV.
Stuart: Yeah. I was moved by my emotions.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: But give me a week after that experience, and I was back totally living for myself. There was not conversion. But there was an emotional decision that I made. And as our children, my wife did not grow up in a home like that. It was a very ungodly home.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: So she wasn't used to these false professions. When she trusted in Christ, it was genuine.
Janet: She did, yeah.
Stuart: And she followed the Lord. But I would watch my children, and I didn't see any love for Christ, any passion for Him at all.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: They loved church 'cause their friends were there. They would do what we said, but I just didn't see any heartbeat after Jesus, and that continued on into the teen years. And what we would do as parents, we would just say, if you are professing to follow Jesus.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: Then you need to follow Him. And the older they got in the teen years, the more we could see they are living for themselves, not for Christ. And I'm not talking perfectly. I'm just saying.
Janet: We all do.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: It just was no, turn.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: In 2 Corinthians 5 live for yourself or you live for Christ, and there was just nothing going towards Jesus. And our daughter, when she was 15 said, dad, I'm not a Christian. And then our son a few years later said, dad, I'm not a Christian either. And I didn't think they were. And I praise God we still have a great relationship and right now, taping this now, the podcast, but they still don't profess faith in Christ.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And so we continue to pray for them. There's still hope.
Janet: Absolutely.
Stuart: They're still alive. But you asked, what kind of precipitated this book is when I came across two passages, Isaiah 1, where the Lord says, many children have I reared, and they've all rebelled. You're like.
Janet: I'm not alone.
Stuart: And I thought, that can't be. You're perfect parent. God's the perfect parent, and He says, I have children and they've rebelled, and I'm, how is that possible? And then in Romans 9, there's a couple of verses in there, the first few where he says, I have many unsaved kinsmen, family members, Jews, fellow Jews, that are unsaved. And he says, I have an unceasing anguish in my soul.
Janet: Oh.
Stuart: For them.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And he's speaking the truth. I'm not lying. It's an unceasing anguish that will not cease.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Over his unsaved family members, fellow Jews. And he had just finished the whole doctrine of salvation, chapters 1 through 8.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And he said, I would trade my salvation if I could give it to them.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: It's you just.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Go, are you?
Janet: After everything, he's just I'm studying Romans right now.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: I'm in Romans 5, and to think I know how Romans 8 ends.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: It's like this, yes.
Stuart: Yeah. And he says, I would give up, I would give all that my salvation if I could. I would take their hell.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And I would give them my salvation. And that just, whoa. And then later in Romans 9, the Lord says, I have compassion on whom I have compassion, and I have mercy on whom I have mercy. It's not on everyone. And we dare not put God to the test and assume He has to save everyone that we know. He will do what's wise, what's most glorifying to Him. Those two passages in Romans 9 and Isaiah just, I needed a recalibration.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: On the area of parenting.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: So if that.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Romans 9 is a powerful passage of, now, he prayed for the unsaved in chapter 10. He said, I'm praying for their salvation.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: So it was and you're going there should be joy. He said, I rejoice always. And you're going you just said you have unceasing anguish. And later he says, I'm sorrowful, yet always rejoicing. And you're going, that's it. It's both. Yeah.
Janet: And I love that you did this because I've started it and I'm already been encouraged because I think here's what I want. I want joy without sorrow. And so until the sorrow's gone, I think I can't have joy. And then to realize that's just not how that works.
Stuart: It's one or the other.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And then it's both. Yeah.
Janet: Yeah. How would you say, are there some specific ways that loving a wayward child tests or refines or strengthens our faith? Are there certain areas that you think the spiritual struggle tends to be?
Stuart: Yes. It is very sanctifying.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: I think marriage is a sanctifying experience. Whenever you're close to someone, it puts pressure on your heart.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And what's in your heart comes out.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: So I thought I was really spiritual until I got married.
Janet: And she did something to you, huh?
Stuart: Yeah. At first I thought, she's bringing me down spiritually, but no, that wasn't the case. It was my, teased, even in marriage and family class, how when I'm single I thought I had all the fruit. I love myself, kind to myself, gentle with myself. I had all the Fruit of the Spirit myself. But it's when people are around that.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And then it'll, I call them sanctifying agents are the children.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And they come along, and they just, they're gonna do what they want, and they make their decisions, and does, it just brings out the things, that I want way too much in my heart.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: The James 4. When you get angry or impatient with them, it's indicative of what is it I'm wanting here.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: What am I worshiping? It really does reveal the heart.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And judgmental. I think that I was doing that early on to older parents who had way more children. I was judging them. And boy, now I have compassion on them. But it's brought my wife and I closer together. Sometimes points of tension.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: On what you do with a child depending on what they decide or what direction they're going or their need that they might have. And we've sought counseling.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: As well on a couple of times and some parenting issues.
Janet: I love that.
Stuart: And we don't have all the answers. This is our first run through this.
Janet: And you don't get a second one.
Stuart: No. No.
Janet: Sorry, guys.
Stuart: Yep. But much more compassion. And I think the older you get, you just see oftentimes a softening with those in ministry. They just, the Lord takes them through being acquainted with sorrow, acquainted just like Jesus.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: A man of sorrows acquainted with grief. You just, you get it more. If God had given us children all professing faith early, I think I know. I think I would be arrogant.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: I would take the glory that really belongs to the Lord. Now I know if God saves our children or grandchildren or some of our family members, it's a God thing. It's totally a God thing.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And I see that sometimes with some parents who have, maybe all believing children, and everyone's walking with the Lord, and they're all involved in ministry. If they're not careful, they can almost glory that we did this right.
Janet: Yeah. Follow us. Do it like we did.
Stuart: That's right. Exactly right.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: We'll write the books. We'll do the seminars, and you do this, and you get this. And you're going, it doesn't work that way.
Janet: And it doesn't even say it's supposed to work that way.
Stuart: No, that's right. That's right.
Janet: But I love hearing you say that because I'll tell you, you said, people who've, there's a softening as you get older. I do believe that's what ought to happen, and that's what we see in scripture. That's what it's gonna look like to look more like Christ.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: But I will tell you, I don't always see that.
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah.
Janet: And so I think the grace of God that instead of doubling down with I did it right and it was not my fault, who am I? Because the temptation when you're hurting is to either justify it.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Or to humbly run to the Lord with it.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And you're showing us, even in this devotional, how can I just learn to humbly run to the Lord with this?
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And then I actually do get to grow in compassion and I get to grow in humility, and I get to grow in love instead of. Brent and I used to talk early in ministry. We watched some people, and probably at that point more from a distance, we weren't their best friends. These were way older in ministry. But there was almost a hard crustiness. They'd been hurt enough times.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: That they weren't gonna get hurt again.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And so now I will give you the word, but I'm not gonna give you my heart. And you saw that, and we prayed early on, would you please protect it? Here was our prayer. When we get hurt, let it hurt every time. We don't wanna get to where we hardened ourselves.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And God has been gracious.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: It has hurt every time.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: But I see, just what you're talking about is beautiful. That's what it ought to be.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And it's led you to writing something that is compassionate, God-focused and can help us all deal with that. 'Cause that temptation is there.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: You said you and Zandra are closer through it. If you're not running to the Lord, the other thing that we'll do with that is, because I'm operating out of fear, what do I have to do to get my kids? Then I'm mad at my husband if he does something different.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: What if you push him away by the truth?
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: You can't be like that. Now.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Now it's between us because I'm still trying to figure out how to control.
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah.
Janet: And you're modeling it doesn't have to be that way. And I love that this book helps us with that.
Stuart: Even design of book was go vertical And your love for the Lord and your trust in Him. And then it should flow out towards your children.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: So love your neighbor. So love God with all your heart, love your neighbor. So you'll see it, it's two sections that go vertical and then horizontal.
Janet: And I've noticed that and I think that's so helpful because I'm one who I would say these are not new truths to me.
Stuart: Yeah, that's right.
Janet: Praise the Lord.
Stuart: Yes. Yeah.
Janet: And so the temptation is I know. But the reality is I need that. I need to meditate there. I need to marinate there. I need to do that. Yeah. Before I go, I'm gonna skip to the second half, what do I need to do?
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Yeah. And appreciate that. But here's what I noticed was I was reading the titles of the days. And let me just stop and say, for those who don't know the type of book, it's a 31-day devotional. Takes, if you just read the devotional, like five minutes. Now, there's lots of passages of scripture, so I'm choosing to go slower and read those. But I love that this is not a heavy lift. It's an encouragement to refocus every day.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: But I was looking at the titles, and I looked ahead, and I saw the first one and the last one both talk about trusting God. And I'm sure some in between, but starting and ending there. So was that intentional? How can this, for a parent, incredibly painful circumstance actually then be a platform for increased trust? 'Cause it seems to naturally do the opposite.
Stuart: Yeah. The scripture will always take us back to God.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Where our hope is. It should be. And if we start drifting, the scriptures brings our eyes back to Him. We start in our relationship with Him, and we better keep it.
Janet: Yes. Yes.
Stuart: And abide with Him all the way through the process, even at the end when we still don't have answers. We don't know I say we have answers, but we don't have.
Janet: We don't know the future.
Stuart: That's right. We don't know the future, and so our hope has to go back to Him. So it, should strengthen our trust in this whole journey. And if it doesn't, we've missed something. So it was designed to kinda keep your eyes on Jesus from beginning to end. And there are some parents whose children may die without Christ, at least as much as they know. Boy, they have to, our God will do what's right He's all-wise. He's perfect in His wisdom. He's perfect in His sovereignty. He's perfect in His love and care.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: The Lord knows, and those, they need comfort God will grace them. His grace will be sufficient at that moment. But until they die, if they should die without Christ, there's hope. Praise God they're still alive, still breathing, they're totally dependent on the Lord, but they don't see it.
Janet: And God is graciously giving them another breath.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: One of the sermons recently at our church, and it's funny how just different phrases will hit you. He was talking about how when God saved Paul, Paul wasn't even looking. And it was like Paul's life was going great. He was moving up with the Pharisees. He was politically doing well. He was respected. He was out doing their work.
Stuart: Stamping out Christianity.
Janet: Stamping out Christianity.
Stuart: Yeah, thought.
Janet: But it was.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: He was rising up the ladder.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: By doing that.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Like socially, things were all going very well for him. And he wasn't even seeking.
Stuart: Yeah, that's right.
Janet: He wasn't looking, but God.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And I found such hope in that.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: It was like.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: That's right, and He tells us that our prayers matter, and so I believe Him when He says that. And we're gonna pray. And that was just so helpful to me to go, it wasn't see, he was looking, and so God met him. It was just, but God.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: That's what we have for all the people that we love.
Stuart: You mentioned you've been studying through the book of Romans.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Romans 3, no one seeks after God.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Not after the true God.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: They have their own God, but they don't seek after the true God. So God seeks us.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: So He gets all the glory. Yeah.
Janet: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. So in that vein, what truths about God's character and heart do you think would, all of it is good, but that will especially help us when we start down the path, and I was thinking specifically, like our regrets. How am I at fault? If I had only been different as a parent, this. What truths about God or things about His heart that you find might be most helpful?
Stuart: Yeah. His character is what we have to focus on.
Janet: Not ours.
Stuart: Not ours. We're all imperfect.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: We all will fail. Even those who have children who God has graced them with salvation, if you were to talk with them and they're humble, they would say it God probably saved them in spite of us.
Janet: Oh.
Stuart: Rather than because of us.
Janet: My son, we've even talked about the fact that I wish I'd been more gospel-focused as a parent.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And God was gracious, but I look back and I'm like.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Yeah, I see the product- based.
Stuart: And one of the things there is when we do see our failures or if our children bring them up to us.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Humble yourself and just ask for forgiveness.
Janet: Own it.
Stuart: Absolutely. I could have done this better. I could have been better like that. We've done that many a time.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: Anytime, I was sitting out talking with my daughter, and she brought up something, and I said, I think I've already asked your forgiveness for that, but if I haven't, please forgive me. That's what you have to do. And not that I don't know if they really understand that or can accept that, but that's what you do.
Janet: But it's right.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: But the character of God that, I just did regular reading on the attributes of God, so just book after book. It just helps me remember it's about Him.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And He's sovereign over salvation. And if we get in there at all and think God plus us will save our children, we have another thing coming. It's all of Him. We can plant and we can water, but we can't give an increase. We can't take a heart of stone and turn it into a heart of flesh. Only He can do that. And I think we have to talk to ourselves truth.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: When we're listening to ourselves, which are often lies. You've had to deal with that in counseling.
Janet: Oh, yeah.
Stuart: We have to deal with this all the time, is if I listen to myself, and it's wonderful to be married to another biblical counselor because Zandra will say, now listen to yourself.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: What did you just say? Oh, yeah, that's right. That's not. So we need to that's the body of Christ. We need to help each other, remind them. And that's what this devotional is. As you said, there's nothing new. What do we haven't received?
Janet: But it's been so helpful because it is deep, which I appreciate 'cause it's not hard to read. But it's very accessible, and yet it's not surface-y. Which I think when we're hurting.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: We don't need just platitudes.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: We need the Lord.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And to be learning how I can keep running back there and I think even recognizing I need to be able to own what I've done wrong, and we want to parent in a way that honors the Lord. And God is so big He makes crooked paths straight. It's not like.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: I can keep someone from coming to Christ or I can make them come to Christ. And I think that level of humility is actually freeing.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: To help me just keep running to the Lord.
Stuart: And two things that you just mentioned, the crooked path, and, Ecclesiastes 7, it says, This is the Lord's doing. Who can make straight what God has made crooked? And it says, This is the Lord's doing.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: I could have, but you can't. And the Lord is sovereign over this. And again, His sovereignty, His faithfulness, His love, His wisdom. But I find parents tend to wanna hide this area of their life in the church. It's like you failed as a parent.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: That's how you feel.
Janet: Yep.
Stuart: And that's how others might perceive you.
Janet: Just as we might have.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Early in ours.
Stuart: I did.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Yeah. And then people kinda move off to the periphery. And they don't wanna be involved. And even pastors who have a wayward child or more, it's just, you're going, what, should I even be in ministry?
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: And they tend to hide this anguish. Deep anguish for their children. They don't wanna put their children out in the public either, the sphere to talk about them. So it's an area that, when I started to open up, Zondra and I would open up. And again, we love our children. They haven't written us off, which some parents, it's happened.
Janet: I know.
Stuart: That's level of hurt and grief.
Janet: Yep.
Stuart: And our whole culture kind of encourages that with these adult children who are sorta ghosting.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Their parents.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Alienating them, and they've abused them, and all that kinda talk. But they need to talk to each other and pray for one another, and they need to open up in a church where they can share.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: The parents can share. This is an area of our life we, parents who don't have an unsaved adult child, they can weep with those who weep. We rejoice.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: With those who rejoice. They can weep with those who weep. But there's just another level when you've gone through something or in it, you understand it, I think, at another level.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: That you get it.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And I just think they need to be open, and I hope that something like this devotional, would encourage more people to say, yeah, we have one. We have two.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: Please pray for us.
Janet: And then you get to.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Lock arms.
Stuart: That's right.
Janet: And take each other to the throne together.
Stuart: That's right. And I'll tell you, when someone comes to faith in Christ, you rejoice with them, and they should weep with you.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: If you don't.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Yes. I love that. We've talked about the whole joy situation. How can we, while we are grieving for someone we love so much, at least right now, how do we cultivate a biblical joy that seems to be at odds with that?
Stuart: Yeah. Our joy is gonna be in the Lord. So we have to keep coming back to Him, and our salvation in Him, all the blessings that we have in Him. Our joy is gonna be in Him. That's why I think Paul said, rejoice always, in Philippians And it's all in regards to our salvation, the blessings, our spiritual family, the church. That will be our joy. You don't so much find joy maybe in your children pending, some have really left, not just left the faith. They're gone into darkness. Big time. But you have to remember, too, that, it's one of the devotionals in there of there's some good things. They're hard things. They're sinful things. But there are some good things that, in the parenting of that child. If you just think back.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: There were some good things.
Janet: Sweet moments.
Stuart: Yeah. And there can be some happiness in those times, even though maybe currently it's not.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: So it hasn't been all.
Janet: Heavy.
Stuart: Horrible.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: And I think you have to remember that God has been good, even in difficult times. And the fact that if they're still alive, that's God's goodness and His patience.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: With them. And if they're hostile to the things of God, so were we. We were all at once.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: Hostile.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: In mind. So it just kinda humbles us to go, yeah, it's a God thing in His time, and the joy is just i'm thankful God has graced us with salvation. We pray for the same for our unsaved loved ones.
Janet: Yeah. And this is not a new. I've seen the phrase, rejoice in the Lord. That's not a new phrase, but to just hear you and maybe it just hit me, my joy has to be in the Lord. And I think I am grateful that I'm saved, but I would be rejoicing if this good thing happened for my loved one. And I'm like there's part of, I'm not trying to even just find my joy only in the Lord. I'm trying to find it other places.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And then this can surface that, which I don't even know is going on.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: And then He graciously gives me these circumstances to.
Stuart: Yeah.
Janet: Even show me that.
Stuart: Yep, He does. He knows where we need to grow. I wish there was another way to grow.
Janet: I know. It does cause me to say, come, Lord Jesus, more.
Stuart: Yeah. That's true.
Janet: I'm ready.
Stuart: That is true. But these are difficult times. They're trials that parents are going through. They're necessary. 1 Peter 1, they're necessary, but they're temporary. Yeah.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Won't last forever. I have said that a few times, man, this is just going on forever. It's not. It's for a time.
Janet: Yeah.
Stuart: But it will not be forever, but it's necessary.
Janet: Yeah. We will definitely link this devotional 'cause I found it really helpful. Are there other resources that you would recommend for those walking this path?
Stuart: There are. I jotted down a few of them. Pastor Brad Bigney, he's done some seminars here Faith.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: During the conference, on hope for hurting parents.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: So he's dealt with some of the passages and gone through, and still is.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: Dealing with some of the issues. So Brad and Vicki, so that.
Janet: So we could link that session in the show notes that they could buy the MP3 or whatever.
Stuart: Yes. It's a seminar in the Faith resources.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: Shirley Elliot wrote a book about her daughter who just kinda left all that she'd been taught and she wrote a book called, From Heartbroken to Hopeful. And she's one of our ACBC counselors.
Janet: Okay, I'm not familiar with that name, but that's great.
Stuart: Yeah. Jack and Barbara Miller, wrote a book called, Come Back, Barbara, and that was their daughter. He was David Powlison's pastor.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: And his daughter completely went, I think she was living with a drug dealer.
Janet: Oh.
Stuart: It was horrible.
Janet: Painful.
Stuart: But every chapter is what the parents were going through, and God graciously saved the daughter. She's now working at New Growth Press.
Janet: Wow.
Stuart: So it just, watching that's a excellent book of encouragement. Jim Newheiser and Elise Fitzpatrick wrote a book, When Good Kids Make Bad Decisions. Just navigating through some difficulty. Margy Tripp, wrote a book called, It's Not Too Late.
Janet: I don't know that one.
Stuart: It's a newer book and excellent on parenting children. Now they're coming from. It's kinda interesting when you have parents doctrinally, if they come from a covenantal position versus a dispensational position.
Janet: Yes. The parenting is a little.
Stuart: It is. It's like.
Janet: A philosophy.
Stuart: They're all in the family, and they'll all come to faith in Christ, and you're going, there's not a promise for that. So the Tripps, are more covenantal in their doctrine position.
Janet: Yes.
Stuart: But it's an excellent book on encouraging parents called, It's Not Too Late.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: So those are probably the books I'd recommend. For early professions of faith, I would recommend, Justin Peters' book, Do Not Hinder Them. It's a small book, but dealing with the professions of faith of children, and he walks through the Gospels, what's being talked about with children and professions.
Janet: Interesting.
Stuart: Very good. Justin Peters. You know that name of.
Janet: I've heard it. I don't know who that is.
Stuart: He's an apologist. He's dealt with a lot of the charismatic movement.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: The cults and from what I just heard, he's started a church.
Janet: Oh, okay.
Stuart: And is pastoring. But he's spoken in a lot of the Gospel conferences and.
Janet: Okay.
Stuart: And whatnot, but good helpful read, Do Not Hinder Them.
Janet: For anyone listening those are some excellent resources that I'm gonna be checking out. But to begin with, I would highly recommend this devotional because it's not overwhelming chunks for each day. But it was reorienting to think, if my joy is going to be in the Lord, how am I gonna remind myself all day long? Because it quickly wants to turn. And so these kinds of books, this was really helpful to me, so hopefully that'll be helpful to others. Thanks for coming up to teach at our MABC this week, and thanks for taking time to do this with us too.
Stuart: Absolutely. Thank you, Janet.
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